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Jdotb BFA Q&A #5 - DPS Roles, Disc Priest Talents, Dungeon Story and Design

posted 2018/10/09 at 11:44 PM by Squishei

last week's Q&AWatch live video from jdotb on www.twitch.tvWant to ask Jdotb a question? Leave a comment below and we'll pick some questions for Jdotb to answer in the next Q&A!

Method Jdotb Q&A #5Elemental Shamans are undergoing the biggest changes in my recent memory. Could Ele Shaman become a viable replacement for Boomkin in M+?Elemental shaman was a curious spec in Legion because it was very powerful in lower keys, but at some point it would just hit a wall because it lacked defensive cooldowns to survive the one-shot abilities that existed in most dungeons. So there was a very pronounced dichotomy for the spec where it looked fantastic if you were doing trivial dungeons but was constantly dead in high keys.

Ele has usually been associated with very strong burst damage, and that’s a niche that not many casters in the current meta can fill. At the moment, the only ranged class with legitimate burst potential that is consistently seen in high level keys is mage. If Ele damage was buffed to the point of relevance, it could become a popular pick simply because its damage profile is very rare in M+.

And this is a good opportunity to talk about DPS roles in M+. Oftentimes people get caught up looking at damage meters without really understanding how that damage was dealt. There are typically four types of damage: burst single target (Glacial Spike), burst AoE (Fel Barrage), sustained single target (Unstable Affliction), and sustained AoE (Starfall). If a class deals most of its damage upfront, it’s referred to as a burst class, and if its damage is back loaded it’s a ramp class. In a raid, the sheer number of DPS you’re bringing probably ensures that you’re getting a healthy mix of all these damage types. But in M+, your DPS are few enough in number that you might be missing one of these. This can have a significant impact on the kinds of pulls you can do as a group. Sometimes you need a lot of damage ASAP to try to kill dangerous mobs before they get a chance to start using their abilities, or maybe you’re planning to kite a pack of mobs for a quite a while and need a class that can keep pressure up for 30-60 seconds. A strong comp will need some mixture of these damage types.

As for the second part of the question -- could Ele replace Boomkin? Probably not, but not for the reasons you might think. As I discussed above, there are different damage styles, and Ele and Boomkin are pretty different in that regard. Boomkin is a classic DoT class that needs time to build its damage up, whereas Ele is going to be doing primarily direct damage. These two specs aren’t really competing for the same spot in a group. Where Ele and Boomkin -do- somewhat compete is in terms of utility. Currently the M+ DPS meta is heavily focused on pure DPS classes (mage, rogue, warlock) with a few other specs sprinkled in (Havoc, Balance). There are a lot of luxuries to having a hybrid class in your group, and right now Boomkin is one of the few hybrid DPS getting brought to high level keys. Things like dispels, resses, and off heals can be a big benefit, and if Ele could start providing those it would be a legitimate reason to consider bringing the class.

Given the complete lack of relevance that shamans of all specs have had in M+ since it was introduced, it’s hard to envision a world where Ele suddenly becomes a trendy pick. But it could happen, and maybe sooner than most expect.Everyone seems to have an opinion, but what is yours? Schism/Halo...or Twist of Fate/Divine Star?For the uninitiated, the spells in question belong to Discipline priests. They are all talents: Schism and Twist of Fate are level 15 choices, and Halo and Divine Star are level 90 choices. The priest community has some vigorous debate about which of these talents are “best” or most appropriate for any given situation, and that’s always a good thing -- it’s a sign that the talents are fairly well-balanced and offer meaningful alternatives to each other rather than having one cookie cutter build. The reasons for taking each talent are a bit different, so we’ll discuss each talent row and why you’d go with one talent over another.

For the level 15 tier, a Disc priest can select among Castigation (not great given Penance’s squirt gun status at the moment), Twist of Fate (your damage and healing is buffed temporarily when you heal someone below 35% health) and Schism (hard hitting ability that increases damage dealt to target by 40% for 9s on a 24s cooldown). Realistically you’re choosing between the last two talents, and the choice tends to depend on how offensively you want to play Disc priest. Schism is a fantastic damage ability, both in the damage it deals and in the debuff that it puts on the target, and it allows Disc priests to burst incredibly hard while it’s up. If you have low damage environments, or situations where incoming damage is infrequent, Schism is a great option because it allows the Disc priest to contribute real damage to the fight and also allows for strong Atonement healing while it’s active. The problem with Schism lies in its limited application to the Disc healing kit. While Schism is great for dealing with group AoE damage, it does nothing for your Power Word: Shield or Shadow Mend healing, and it only affects one target so it isn’t doing much for your AoE abilities like Halo or Divine Star. I think most Disc priests would agree that Schism is by far the more fun ability to use, but it’s easy to feel like you’ve pigeonholed yourself when healing requirements ramp up.

Twist of Fate, on the other hand, is considered the more defensive talent because it’s giving you a straight buff to all your damage and healing. The catch is that it only activates if you’re healing people below 35%, so on any fight where your group isn’t taking significant damage you may struggle to use it effectively. You can usually gin up ways to let your tank dip below 35% to trigger it, but 35% is low enough that you’re playing with fire. However, in situations where you’re routinely dealing with heavy damage, Twist of Fate can at times be essentially a 100% uptime buff giving you 20% more damage and healing. On weeks like Grievous or Quaking, where group damage and tank damage are constant, Twist can give your “boring” healing spells (i.e., the non-Atonement ones) a noticeable boost.

Both Schism and Twist are strong, and both have their uses. On my Disc priest I usually find myself trying to “get away” with Schism and “settling” with Twist when healing requirements are high. It’s a lot of fun to dunk on bosses with Schism.

The other talent choices in question are from the level 90 tier. The community goes back and forth on Divine Star and Halo all the time because the two spells are very similar in terms of what they do. Unlike Twist and Schism which provide different solutions for different problems, Divine Star and Halo try to essentially provide the same solution but in different methods. Both spells do AoE damage and healing and have some positional requirements to get maximum benefit. Divine Star fires a bolt that travels 24 yards then returns to you. It deals damage to enemies and heals allies both on the way out and the way back. Halo, on the other hand, creates a ring centered on you that expands out to 30 yards, damaging enemies and healing allies.

The debate between these two spells is less about the numbers they do and more about the practical requirements to use them effectively. Divine Star’s strength lies in its low cooldown (15s) and ability to register twice if you can position the targets correctly. Actually getting “max” effect out of this spell is a different story entirely, though. In raids it’s usually a safe bet that there will be a big pile of melee that you can count on, but in 5 man dungeons your group is likely to be spread out all over the place. And if you’re trying to use it on a group of enemies, the enemies will need to be tightly stacked. It can frequently feel like you spend so much time trying to setup a perfect Divine Star that you offset the value of it because you’re running around or waiting for mobs to stop moving. So Divine Star’s weakness is that it can be hard to hit the things you want to hit.

Conversely, Halo’s weakness is that it hits everything you want to hit and a whole lot more. Halo has a longer cooldown (40s) than Divine Star, and it hits harder because of it, so it’s more appropriate for big burst healing requirements. The problem is that Halo’s radius is huge, so while you’re virtually guaranteed to heal your entire party/raid, you’re also going to hit a bunch of enemies. If you’ve got anything crowd controlled, kiss that goodbye. If there are any mobs near you that you didn’t want to pull, too bad. If you’re standing near a cliff that drops 30 yards and you thought the z-axis would prevent Halo from pulling everything beneath you, you’re gonna learn today.

So the choice between Divine Star and Halo can oftentimes boil down to the positional requirements of a fight. I really like using Halo in dungeons, but some dungeons (Motherlode, for example) have enough mob density that it’s virtually impossible to get off a clean Halo. And even when you’re pretty sure it’s safe, you still spin your camera three times to triple check.

To answer the original question, my preference is Shism/Halo, but I spend plenty of time using Twist/DS as well.If you take out affixes, what are your favorite dungeons in BFA just based on the story and design?Before I answer, I want to single out Waycrest Manor. I hear a lot of people say they love the look and feel of Waycrest, and it’s definitely a unique and memorable dungeon and likely one that will stick out in people’s memory when they look back on BFA. And I literally cannot divorce my opinion of Waycrest as a concept from the actual gameplay of the dungeon. I hate Waycrest Manor. It’s cramped, it has random routes, it has mobs that are actually worth no mob count in M+ but that you have to kill anyway, and all the mobs are gross. I should think it’s cool, I should find it interesting, but Waycrest is just UGHHHHHH.

With that out of the way, I think my favorite dungeon stylistically is Shrine of the Storm. It has the nice Kul Tiran aesthetic, and you get a sense of a story as you move through the dungeon. Things go from mostly humanoid at the start to mostly tentacle-faced by the end, and the Old Gods vibe is cool. All the bosses make sense thematically and each seems to have a purpose in the theme of the dungeon. Plus the last room you’re in with Vol’zith has the big suspended ship in the back which is a nice set piece.

Freehold isn’t particularly striking visually, but the concept is neat. I like the idea of having multiple factions within the dungeon that rotate each week to emphasize the fact that Freehold is a pirate collective with loose loyalties. The pirate theme is obviously strong, and Freehold probably wins the contest for most unforgettable boss (Shark Puncher!!). Also I think every group had a good laugh the first time they tried to click the pig in the Ring of Booty event.

The Underrot is a good dungeon in that it all fits together well conceptually, but the look of it is just so depressing (which is kind of the point). The theme of rot and disease is well-portrayed, but since everything is just different shades of grey the dungeon itself becomes kind of bleh. It’s a shame because the blood trolls look so cool, and I’d like to see a whole dungeon devoted to them, but they only show up briefly in Underrot.Comments on Week of Oct 9 AffixesDungeons Most Affected by TyrannicalTemple of Sethraliss - Aspix and Adderis will be rough. Aspix’s Static Shock will drop the entire party’s health fairly low on Tyrannical weeks, and Conduction is going to leave someone at low health right before Static Shock goes off. Galvazzt will ramp in difficulty the longer the fight goes on, and if his Consume Charge goes off it will probably kill at least a few people. Avatar of Sethraliss is already a marathon fight, and now Pulse will squeeze healer mana that much more.

Freehold - The Azerite Powdershot from Skycap’n will deal mega damage on Tyrannical, so make sure everyone is topped off before he casts it. Council of Captains has three bosses, one of which will be friendly depending on the week (it rotates each week). If Eudora is one of the two enemy bosses, this fight becomes very dangerous. Eudora’s Grapeshot will heavily punish bad positioning, and the RNG nature of Powdershot means it will inevitably pick the same person two or three times in a row and kill them if they aren’t healed up very quickly. Shark Puncher’s sharks start dealing ridiculous damage on higher keys, and standing next to them for one or two ticks will get you killed. Once both sharks are out, you need to be very diligent about kiting them.

Waycrest Manor - The Triad gets infinitely more dangerous when it’s allowed to use its abilities multiple times, which is almost assured on Tyrannical. Immunities will be a big help on this boss. Goliath will hit the tank extremely hard, and resetting your stacks will do quite a bit of group damage. Lord and Lady Waycrest will also rough up the tank, and Lady Waycrest’s Wracking Chord will do an annoying amount of party damage. Gorak Tul’s adds start to become an issue the longer he lives, so your party will need to stay on top of using the Alchemical Fires at appropriate times throughout the fight.Dungeons Most Affected by TeemingWaycrest Manor - Several additional Heartsbane and Coven witches are added to Waycrest for Teeming, and those mobs are no joke. An extra Thornguard in the courtyard makes big pulls even more dangerous. The added Teeming trash will make life difficult for the tank as the mobs in Waycrest hit pretty hard.

The Underrot - A few new Blood Matrons show up at the start of the dungeon which is not good. Lots of added Fetid Maggots on the way to the second boss means you probably won’t have enough ways to break their Rotten Bile casts so you’ll need to keep your head on a swivel. Cragmaw’s room has lots of extra Bloodswarmers which might be the most annoying mob in the game. At least the back half of the dungeon is fairly untouched.

The MOTHERLODE!! - You’ll get some extra Assassins and Mech Jockeys before the first boss which isn’t great but isn’t terrible either. The Taskmaster Askari pull before Azerokk gets some extra adds, and that pull is already hectic enough. The real issue is the inclusion of several new Masterminds before Rixxa and literally dozens of new Crawler Mines on the way to Razdunk. This makes battle res skips almost mandatory.Dungeons Most Affected by VolcanicWaycrest Manor - Soul Thorns from Soulbound Goliath will stun you until your group kills the thorns. If Volcanic spawns under you, you won’t be able to avoid it. Gorak Tul’s Deathtouched Slavers will frequently cast Death Lens on DPS party members, and the player will be stunned for the duration of the channel unless it is interrupted making Volcanic potentially an issue. If your route takes you through the Maddened Survivalist room, be careful to avoid their Freezing Traps as it will stun you for eight seconds.

The Underrot - The Diseased Lashers cast Decaying Mind on random DPS players, and if your group doesn’t have a disease dispel or your dispel is on cooldown, the debuff will stun the player for an absurdly long time until you do enough healing to remove it. Hooked Snare from the Fanatical Headhunter will root a player for eight seconds, so be prepared to eat a Volcanic if your class doesn’t have a root break.

Tol Dagor - Silt Crabs at the start of the dungeon will root nearby enemies in place for six seconds unless they are interrupted, so melee will need to be extra vigilant. Jes Howlis has two stuns that can cause trouble: the first is Smoke Powder which Jes casts at 50% health and stuns the group for six seconds (make sure you aren’t stacked here), and the second is from Jes’ brother Bobby who will cast Vicious Mauling which stuns a player for up to 30 seconds until Bobby is interrupted. Both Valyri and Korgus are boss fights where players are likely going to end up cramped together for periods of time, so try to stay spread as well as possible on these fights.
Dungeons Most Affected by This Week’s AffixesWaycrest Manor - The Teeming mobs in here aren’t fun, and there are actually some boss fights which could potentially punish you with Volcanic. Triad on Tyrannical gets nasty, and Lord and Lady Waycrest will do some real damage to both your tank and your group.

The Underrot - The additional Bloodswarmers from Teeming will make Cragmaw’s room particularly unpleasant, and the potential for a wombo combo from Volcanic and Decaying Mind (and maybe even a Bloodswamer fixate for good measure) is always present. Cragmaw’s Tantrum will hurt on Tyrannical, and the extra boss health ensures you’ll probably get a least couple of them. Take care not to baited by Cleansing Light on Unbound Abomination as players will try to stack on each other and can blasted by a Volcanic which can be hard to see under the Cleansing Light graphic.

Temple of Sethraliss - Galvazzt is a boss that gets more and more dangerous as the fight goes along, so Tyrannical will probably stretch your healer’s mana thin. Avatar is also a fight that will tax healer mana, and you’ll want to be quick with the dispels on the Plague Doctor’s Snake Charm as it can lead to some Volcanic deaths. Make sure to have everyone topped off for Aspix’s Static Shock. Make sure you’re dispelling the Marksman’s Neurotoxin as it can also get players clipped by Volcanic. The additional Teeming Static-charged Dervish’s in Galvazzt’s room will hurt a lot.Dungeons Least Affected by This Week’s AffixesAtal’Dazar - The Teeming mobs in here aren’t backbreakers, and none of the bosses have any real potential for punishing you with Volcanic. Tyrannical makes the bosses a bit longer, which can get troublesome on Yazma once the room is flooded with spiders, but the rest of the bosses are mostly harmless.

Shrine of the Storm - You’ll need to be a little careful on Aqu’sirr as Grasp from the Depths can potentially cause issues with Volcanic, but otherwise Volcanic is harmless. The worst part of Teeming for Shrine is simply the increased number of mobs you’ll need, as you already have to kill quite a few to get your count. Tyrannical Council can be rough on tanks, but otherwise the bosses in here aren’t too much worse on Tyrannical.

Siege of Boralus - Nothing too terrible gets added by Teeming, and the only opportunity for Volcanic to really mess with you is if you aren’t careful where you step in the Bilge Rat area (God bless bananas). Viq’Goth can be a slog of a fight on Tyrannical, but if you’re methodical about killing tentacles then the fight isn’t especially more dangerous.

Comments

Comment by KeszeyAnother great Q&A by my Dude.Comment by blupacheDungeons most affected by any affix: Waycrest Manor

---

I always find these interesting, but the bit on elemental was particularly so. Shaman in general always feel like one of those classes that have so much useful-but-not-vital utility that devs are (justifiably) scared of buffing their throughput.

I'd really like to hear more thoughts on DPS roles, high-vs-low key & planned-vs-yolo play.

I'm stuck at that point of halfway competent - easy to get a 10 completion, iffy on getting a 10 in time, but with players that could routinely get a 12-15 in time if they actually got their act together & planned/focused. Our meta tends towards the "who's online & good" and dungeon routes are variable. Some more practical advice about how to approach these not-quite-ideal situations would be great.Comment by Tinkerer"What are your favorite dungeons?"
"I REALLY HATE THESE TWO"Comment by KaerfemagshUnderrot is not a good dungeon, its way too freakin hard/unforgivingComment by livieToday on: "why Waycrest sucks and why Atal'Dazar doesn't." Come on Blizz, mix it up just a tad, sheesh.Comment by smoknaintezDamn no love for bm hunter even though we have incredible utility and big dps, we lost battle res and suddenly we are worthless...hmmm
Multiple defensives including immunity, cc and slows out the wazu, multiple interrupts, solid burst dps on short cd, can aoe while keeping up full st, off-tank pet that has big heals and soothe(edit), lust pet, could go on for days, literally made for m+Comment by jodiesattvaDamn no love for bm hunter even though we have incredible utility and big dps, we lost battle res and suddenly we are worthless...hmmm
Multiple defensives including immunity, cc and slows out the wazu, multiple interrupts, solid burst dps on short cd, can aoe while keeping up full st, off-tank pet that has big heals, lust pet, could go on for days, literally made for m+Comment by lovelywazDamn no love for bm hunter even though we have incredible utility and big dps, we lost battle res and suddenly we are worthless...hmmm
Multiple defensives including immunity, cc and slows out the wazu, multiple interrupts, solid burst dps on short cd, can aoe while keeping up full st, off-tank pet that has big heals and soothe(edit), lust pet, could go on for days, literally made for m+Shroud of ConcealmentComment by CharakHis fav dungeon is literally the worst designed dungeon of BFA, sure thematically it looks good but everything gameplay wise is just awful.

Shrine of the Storm was a mistake and should have died in testing.

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Jdotb BFA Q&A #5 - DPS Roles, Disc Priest Talents, Dungeon Story and Design

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