The Raid and Party Buff Meta in Dragonflight - Dratnos and Tettles Discuss

Live Posted 2022/07/11 at 10:44 PM by Squishei

Rogue Talent Tree RevealMark of the Wild

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Comment by FathommgamingI think raid wide buffs (INT, BS, etc) are fine but having single transferrable buffs (PI) or party buffs (WF) is bad and don't make them stackable. That way you just need to bring one to the raid and you aren't hindered if you aren't the lucky one to get PI or put in the 5man stack group.Comment by Tiwiei wont invest another moment on playing their games, they have lost my trust with these decisions foreverComment by Frenzirei was hyped for this xpac but after all the recently finding with power infusion and now these party only externals nah thxComment by roldy27Last thing I'll say:

There are 35+ specs in the game. You cannot bring them all, it's mathematically impossible.

If every 1 of them provided a unique raid buff/benefit, then it means that missing out on one is nowhere as impactful, because other guiilds/rosters will also be missing out on several raid buffs/benefits as well and with each spec providing a benefit, then players will be less impacted by it, as they will have their own unique buff to provide.

If right now, only some classes provide buffs, like Monks and DH, then it is a much larger impact not having 1, because the specs they are replaced with, like a rogue or paladin, will have nowhere near the same benefit for the raid in Shadowlands. If Dragonflight changed that so all specs provide something, then that would be beneficial for all raid rosters because you cannot gain all the buffs anyway; it's just mitigating the impact from not having a monk or DH.

Therefore, it is a choice between different classes/specs on what to provide to a raid.Comment by OldburyI'm super down for class utility, it stands to reason that you should want at least one of each class in a raid group.

What I'm not down for is spec utility. There's far too many specs in game for them. Spec-specific utility is Blizzard basically picking golden children and is not conducive to an enjoyable environment. Assassination and Subtlety already in danger and Alpha hasn't even fully begun yet. If they want something like this in the game, it has to be given to rogue, not just outlaw.

Not to mention, it's sore tiresome always having to use "your" choices, in this case your talent selection, for the benefit of other players and get no gain yourself. It sucks. We see this with PI now. This kind of stuff was for an old, depreciated era of "hybrids" where folks who wanted this "support" role just played Shaman and Druid. Instead Blizzard in their infinite wisdom decides to try and shoehorn them in to everything.Comment by nephriteI don't understand why we can't go back to the Wrath-era way of buffs, where multiple classes brought multiple buffs. They could very, very easily make it so Guard/Feral druids apply the physical debuff, Unholy and like, Survival bring the magic debuff.

It's incredibly stupid that the way it's setup now you really have to bring 7 different classes or you miss out. What if you just don't have any good Warriors? Just get bent?Comment by instig

In your scenario bringing more than one of each class/spec would then be suboptimal

plus it would always be beneficial to make your raids as big as possible to get as many buffs as possible. Imagine running as a 10 man with 3 druids because your friends just happen to play those classes. Comment by roldy27 The balancing has been good enough since wotlk to bring whichever class you want we don't need these raidbuffs increase the possibility of certain specs to be brought in raids.
This already happens though. 30 man is vastly easier than 10 man. There has been nerfs just to 10 man difficulty because it's so much harder than larger raid sizes.Comment by Oldbury The balancing has been good enough since wotlk to bring whichever class you want we don't need these raidbuffs increase the possibility of certain specs to be brought in raids.
This already happens though. 30 man is vastly easier than 10 man. There has been nerfs just to 10 man difficulty because it's so much harder than larger raid sizes.Comment by roldy27 The balancing has been good enough since wotlk to bring whichever class you want we don't need these raidbuffs increase the possibility of certain specs to be brought in raids.
This already happens though. 30 man is vastly easier than 10 man. There has been nerfs just to 10 man difficulty because it's so much harder than larger raid sizes.Comment by UmmiwcatI don't see any of this as being a good thing, currently all things like chaos brand, devotion aura, mystic touch, arcane intellect, battle shout, windfury totem, and power word: fortitude. Already makes raid teams claustrophobic in that you already need at minimum 7 classes to ensure you have each of the buffs and debuffs. Adding more to this without expanding upon how many people can be in a mythic raid at time will only compound the issue. Along with the outlaw talent in its current form 100% being broken given if you stack 4-5 per raid group, and follow it by filling the rest of your available DPS slots with whatever does the most amount of ST or AoE. It's just going to amplify already existing issues with balance given you would be essentially subtracting 4-5 seconds of major CD's at a time if you outlaw stack.

Diversity in this form just does not work well in terms of balance simply put, and I know a lot of players are vying for it hard. I feel like not every class simply needs to have some buff or debuff they bring, and I would like to see personally a reduction in the amounts given coming from experience of not having a buff or debuff in raids. It heavily impacts how a fight will go in terms of HPS, DPS and survivability, given they designed the encounters around having all the buffs and debuffs. Heck to me all they seem to accomplish is more representation of classes and specs, which simply should not be what blizzard uses for that purpose honestly.

I could justify less impactful flavor abilities that don't impact DPS, HPS and survivability, given it would hold blizzard accountable to actually trying to balance the game. Over adding all of this, dusting their hands off and saying good job team as they walk away after setting the dumpster on fire again.

I called out covenants, shards and even the tier sets in how purely unbalanced and chaotic they simply were. Got told I'm dumb, stupid or don't know what I'm talking about yet each thing I listed was a major problem for this expansion. I can simply see the same happeing for them adding more things like this into each class and each spec, and its just gonna make DF a giant dumpster fire simply becuase they went overboard. With class flavor, and it will turn into an issue of class stacking if outlaw at least stays the way it is right now. They should at least turn restless crew into an aura or buff, as guilds and players will 100% go full outlaw rogue just to stack it for the CDR.

Please cut back on this, it's not going to work well, unless you plan to expand upon the size of raids for mythic.Comment by SeniaaPeople blowing the Outlaw talent out of proportional as per usual. I understand reading is hard, but Restless Crew affects 5 people not 20 which greatly reduces its usefulness in a raid setting unless you bring multiples.Comment by SeniaaLast thing I'll say:

There are 35+ specs in the game. You cannot bring them all, it's mathematically impossible.

If every 1 of them provided a unique raid buff/benefit, then it means that missing out on one is nowhere as impactful, because other guiilds/rosters will also be missing out on several raid buffs/benefits as well and with each spec providing a benefit, then players will be less impacted by it, as they will have their own unique buff to provide.

If right now, only some classes provide buffs, like Monks and DH, then it is a much larger impact not having 1, because the specs they are replaced with, like a rogue or paladin, will have nowhere near the same benefit for the raid in Shadowlands. If Dragonflight changed that so all specs provide something, then that would be beneficial for all raid rosters because you cannot gain all the buffs anyway; it's just mitigating the impact from not having a monk or DH.

Therefore, it is a choice between different classes/specs on what to provide to a raid.Comment by PeesneezeWhy are we discussing meta when half the classes don't even have a talent tree yet?Comment by bigityDungeon utility between classes?

Meanwhile feral can't get trees which is a fantastic dungeon utility spell.

etcComment by roldy27Last thing I'll say:

There are 35+ specs in the game. You cannot bring them all, it's mathematically impossible.

If every 1 of them provided a unique raid buff/benefit, then it means that missing out on one is nowhere as impactful, because other guiilds/rosters will also be missing out on several raid buffs/benefits as well and with each spec providing a benefit, then players will be less impacted by it, as they will have their own unique buff to provide.

If right now, only some classes provide buffs, like Monks and DH, then it is a much larger impact not having 1, because the specs they are replaced with, like a rogue or paladin, will have nowhere near the same benefit for the raid in Shadowlands. If Dragonflight changed that so all specs provide something, then that would be beneficial for all raid rosters because you cannot gain all the buffs anyway; it's just mitigating the impact from not having a monk or DH.

Therefore, it is a choice between different classes/specs on what to provide to a raid.Comment by AbramorAll those people in the comments talking about Mythic raiding, how much of you actually participate in it? I just want to not be turned out from Normal raid group because I play melee or non-meta spec without heroic ilvls.

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