Not nearly enough but it is a good start for us at least. Getting more energy quicker is going to help a lot with energy management during shadowdance, so it will increase dps significantly during the burst window.More damage from our aoe is going to push us far however. What the writer misses in the response to the changes is that during shadowdance we already get a procentage based increase in damage from all abilities so it will push us past outlaw and muti easily in aoe and might make it so mastery becomes a bit more viable as a stat again at least for aoe fights and keystones.
These changes does signal to me that they have finally decided for what each rogue spec is meant to do.Assassination: ST + 2-3T cleaveOutlaw: Jack of all trades but master of noneSub: ST + AoESub could also stand to gain from improved borrowed power where they lag behind the 2 other specs which would put it at assassination level. I don't agree that sub does not have a clear reason to be picked, it can deal with frequent priority adds or frequent "burst" moments very well. In CN it was a really good spec for Sludgefist, Sun king and Council of blood for these exact reasons (BDG even played 2 sub rogues on Council).So with better ST i think sub can be a very viable pick for raiding, simply because of its CD flexibility which is an often overlooked edge it has over both assassination and outlaw, which has either long CDs or no "burst" cds at all.
About shield, I think it’s meant to start 4s time once you enter stealth. They simply wanted to prevent sitting in stealth with dots. Now we have 4s only to restealth and run away once dots will again turn us out of stealth. So yes, it’s a nerf. Little bit compensated by increased shield.
I mean, as far as mythic raiding is concerned Assassination would come out on top even if sub simmed slighly more, simply due to it being less uptime reliant and plainly speaking easier to play optimally. The fact that sub still sims less than assa in ST scenarios means that we most likely won't see many people if any playing it, but who knows, things might change. At this moment however, Assa has more ST, more dmg on 2-3 targets, an execute legendary, it's less impacted by uptime on target and is easier to play. What i honestly hoped for, is for sub to replace outlaw in M+ scenarios, which seems more likely, but apparently that's not likely to happen either.
And this is analysis we expected. It's not just a longer description of what Blizzard written.Nice, like it.
The biggest problem with sub and downtime is not that it deals little damage out of melee range.The problem is the spec has two timers that are crucial to its performance, shadow dance cd and symbol of death cd, but only dance has cdr mechanism while symbol is hardlocked at 30 seconds. On a dummy situation these two timers can sync somewhat perfectly, but as soon as some downtime is involved, the two timers just desync out of control really quick. A rule of thumb about delaying cd is to do it when you don't risk wasting a cast. But that's not applicable with symbol because symbol is on such a low cd. Having downtime often means one of the following: you can't do damage when it comes up, you don't have shadow dance when symbol comes up, or you just straight can't use it due to boss mechanics(e.g. sludgefist.). This problem can be fixed by simply jacking up the numbers, but doing it won't change the fact that the spec feels extremely mundane after getting familiar with it, every single cast is pre-determined, and if the fight doesn't line up with the two timer well, then you're not performing well for that fight, there's really nothing else you can do about it.
The problem often is not from dance but symbol, I'll use sludgefist as an example because it's so apparent on that fight.Your second symbol comes up, but the ground aoe knock back is also up, you have to run away, at that point your best option is to use symbol for...nothing, there's nothing you can do, you can maybe salvage 1 or 2 seconds left on the symbol after the aoe goes out and you can finally go back to do damage, but you can't delay the symbol because then you won't have it for next pillar, you don't want to waste a whole symbol cast too, so you might as well just use it while standing there frustrated.It's a learn to play thing if there are things to be learned, but I'm obviously not talking about that.
I'm not sure if you're trying to be as condescending as possible and why would you talk like this but you obviously did not understand the specific scenario I'm talking about. After checking what I assume would be your logs I can actually see it happen to you where you missed nearly half of the pillar without having symbol because you delayed your even number symbol for stomps. Maybe you should also learn to play:)
You should've known what? I'm talking about a designing issue where a major portion of the spec's damage being hardlocked in a 30 second timer, which could easily leave the player in a lose-lose situation, and sludgefist is but an example. Tell me then, what would you do in retrospect to "fix" it when the stomp comes up at x:30 seconds? Mind you you're the one who's repeating the most basic stuff that everybody knows about, prepull symbol and what not, tell me something I don't know. You can have the cds line up pixel perfect but when the stomp comes at a bad timing you're still screwed and are left with no good options. Then again, slg is just an example, given the current damage profile, sub is bound to get cucked here and there in the future, what if they put out a boss where the damage window is on a 45s rotation? Also, for the record, shiv does matter for sin, take that spell off simc and see for yourself, maybe you should get some of your "basic stuff" checked too.
Nobody, not a single person asked for a backstab buff, it's the most flavorless, boring, filler ability in the kit that we don't want to press unless we literally have to, and as Mystler so kindly pointed out all these buffs serve to do in the big picture is smooth out our burst / conserve damage profile which we also don't want because that's the literal identity of the spec. Now the buffs are nice (aoe is very well done and received and shadow techniques while still being unreliable is somewhat welcomed as well, backstab however is not. Subs identity of a burst st / funnel spec with short flexible cooldown windows is its only reason to be brought to raid (not currently because it's so under-tuned that even in said instances where that damage profile shines it still finds itself wanting). In a world where multiple melee specs without mandatory raid buffs are fighting for as little as 1 spot you need a strength or a niche to fill and with subs ability to do 2-4 target cleave almost non existant, its St below that of assassination and other specs like spriest, etc (even with the buffs), and it's aoe not very competitive within its own class until higher density levels and even then still not competitive with other classes Sub finds itself in once again a precarious position. What do we have to offer? Cooldowns that while less impactful overall are somewhat flexible and entirely dependent on fight design to show great value or funnel. Now both of these strengths can be enhanced easily while also increasing the fun of the spec. How? Simple, just slightly buff eviscerate, it buffs our ST damage, our funnel, our burst profile, and it's fun! Who doesn't like bigger crits? I know i do :). Additionally some attention could also be paid to the legendaries or even counduits of sub both very, very, underwhelming our best two legendaries Akaaris and Finality fail to scratch even the 5% mark of an increase in our damage, while at the same time doing absolutely nothing to change up the rotation or play style. There is some hope for the new Venthyr legendary but it's currently so buggy that it's hard to tell how it will actually be implemented. Will the cdr for flagellation last the entire 24 seconds, or just the first 12, will lashing scars affect it or not? (it currently doesn't since it's not based on lashes but cp spent) and what all this means is the cooldown ends up at about 1:10 instead of 1:30 de-syncing it with our regular cooldowns of Dance/Symbols and without a reliable way to consistently get flag down to a 1 minute cooldown this makes it basically impossible to get good usage out of the legendary haste/vers buff and additional cdr.When tuned properly sub has its strengths and it has an identity don't snuff those out, elevate them to the forefront of the spec, please.
Cloaked in Shadows on live is exceptionally annoying especially open world. A rogue can attack and attempt to kill you then slink off into stealth with no consequence if it doesn't go well.Now once again if you have a dot and ideally a bleed up they have to either re-engage or flee. Good change.