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Ulduar Gear
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Post by
chris0610
I'm a gm and we do Ulduar weekly. We get 4-6 boss' down on our roic runs. The last few runs we have had druids trying to roll on cloth gear. Granted they can wear it, but are for the most part leather wearers. Once I brought this up and denied a cloth piece to a druid I was told that Ulduar was unfair to druids especially on the first 4-5 boss'. The research I did shows that approx. 9 pieces of leather drop on the first 4-5 boss', and approx. 11 pieces of cloth have potential to drop off the first 4-5 boss'. (these numbers included potential trash mob epic drops) Am I missing something here or do the numbers seem pretty fair seeing as we usually have 3 other class' that wear cloth (mages, warlocks, and priests)? If anything by my count I'm seeing clothies getting the shaft here. Can you give me any information I may be missing here or does this seem pretty fair not to let the druids roll on the cloth? I'm trying to be as fair as possible in loot distribution and just want to make sure I'm not screwing up here. Thank you for any help you can give me.
Post by
meowliekacat
If it is an upgrade for them let them have it. I wouldn't be surprised if the current Boomkin set had more than 3 peices that were cloth.
Post by
299264
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202241
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80642
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Post by
pelf
The above said, if a cloth item is literally one of my BiS pieces, you can bet I will want to be able to roll on it with everyone else that is able to equip it.
Post by
433122
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Post by
80642
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Post by
pelf
But it does change from guild to guild, and most PuGs won't have an issue with this either.
I
personally
would pass on the item for a clothie to get, for the above reasons. That's mainly because I play for the fun of it. I'm not concerned about getting a Best in Slot item right now, because I'm not in Ulduar, or anywhere close to it.
A good guild policy is to have members actually post their BiS lists as several of my guilds have done. It makes it clear upfront what pieces everyone intends to go after. I personally don't pursue stuff that isn't in that list; so, anyone could look at my BiS list and know from the day I post it which cloth pieces I'm after.
Post by
chris0610
Doing a bit more detailed look at Ulduar heroic drops. I noticed the first 5 boss' do not drop any leather gear with hit on it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but leather with hit is pretty much boomkin. If that is true, I may have just answered my own question, and will allow boomkins to roll on cloth items. I did see there were leather items with attack power, some with haste, crit and sp. I believe both of those items are for feral, and healing class druids. Please forgive me if I screwed that up, my knowledge of the druid is very basic. Except for the fact I know I love to have them in my raids.
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80642
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Post by
260787
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Post by
Heckler
Many people view the ability to wear Cloth & Leather as a "benefit" of Druids over Cloth-only classes. The idea of barring Druids from Cloth gear, from this point of view, seems a little vindictive, and possibly "self-destructive" to deny one of the people making
your
raid possible access to better performance. While I think pelf's BiS list idea is the best solution, in lieu of this a simple rule of "No cloth for Druids" seems like the wrong choice.
Also, justifying a rule like this requires the assumption that Blizzard perfectly balances gear distribution over the 4 armor types, clearly this isn't 100% true as many BiS pieces for Resto and Balance are Cloth. I think the bottom line is, if handing out an upgrade increases the Raid's performance, than this question shouldn't even be an issue. Quoting you:
my knowledge of the druid is very basic. Except for the fact I know
I love to have them in my raids
.
Keep this in mind when you make a rule that could deny them access to better DPS.
Post by
chris0610
The plural form of boss is bosses.
Not much leather comes with hit rating, so most Moonkins have to rely on hit coming from necklaces, rings, trinkets or weapons (since most guilds have a negative view on Moonkins rolling on cloth).
When it comes to cloth, if you take
Razorscale
for example, she drops
Shackles of the Odalisque
and
Bracers of the Broodmother
so I'd say cloth goes to cloth wearers and leather goes to leather wearers, since they're comparable. But, if you come across
Grasps of Reason
from
XT-002 Deconstructor's
Hard Mode, you'll find that no leather is comparable, so leather wearers should be given a fair shot at this (this item is also BiS for both cloth and leather wearing classes).
If you want to put restrictions on who can roll on what, then you just need to understand 100% who needs what and what the circumstances are. Until then, you're in no place to deny a leather wearer cloth gear.
And the plural form of radius is radii.....ty for the grammar lesson. (OT BTW)
Thank you all for your assistance. I think I will allow my boomkins to roll on cloth, but the other two specs will be stuck rolling on leather. For me this seems pretty fair without completely alienating my clothies. If by chance anyone can think of a more fair system for druids please post. Again thank you for all your help and my grammar lesson ; )
Post by
pelf
And the plural form of radius is radii.....ty for the grammar lesson. (OT BTW)
Course he
didn't
use radius's plural in his post, and you
did
use an apostrophe to pluralize which is like a grammatical plague nowadays.
Post by
260787
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Post by
windstrum
While the topic is debated back and forth, Blizzard could easily fix this.
All they have to do is add BiS items for any given class that
match
their armor type. Even if the stats are exactly the same as a another piece of a different armor type, at least its clear which piece is for whom.
Having druids roll off with priests and warlocks, and having paladins roll off with shamans, is silly. Whether Blizzard have their motives for this I can't say, but it comes across to me as lazy gear design.
Post by
Heckler
This could help as well:
New Dungeon Loot Feature
Players will now be able to trade soulbound items with other raid or group members that were eligible for the loot. This system will work like the Item Buy Back system and allow 2 hours for players to trade an item after it has been looted. Players who choose to enchant or add gems to the item will get one last confirmation before losing the ability to trade the item.
Post by
155741
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Post by
Celdhyrean
My current moonkin set has only cloth pieces for offset items.
The problem with casting leather isn't that there's no hit on it, as moonkins don't need that much hit to get capped (and there are enough neck/rings/OH/... to get what's missing), but that there is always spirit. Spirit isn't completely useless but is not a priority. Cloth on the other does have some sta/in/sp/2of items, which are generally much better at comparable item level. And even with spirit, cloth generally has better items (with a smaller margin) than leather. Look at the Ulduar boot crafts for example, cloth has 56 haste while leather has 48 crit (and some more spirit). Even with the 3.2 haste nerf, this stays a very close call.
There really aren't many leather item that are of interest to us and that's that. As others have said though, you don't want your moonkins to roll on everything because it's cloth and better than what they have either. Wether you trust them to only roll on the right things or devise a system as mentionned by pelf, moonkins should know wether there's an equivalent leather item in the content they are currently doing or not before chosing to roll on cloth.
I haven't looked at resto gear all that much as it's only a second spec for me, but fot them too the armor class is really irrelevant to gear choices. I don't know how their leather BiS compare to the cloth BiS, but you might want to investigate this a bit more before locking them out of cloth (i'm still using leash of heedless magic and unsullied cuffs when healing for example, and they were BiS in T7 content)
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