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Tips and hints from the pros please
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sunwukung
look at my sig.
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Post by
Heckler
Revitalise is nice, but only has a 15% chance to proc given 3/3. I would hardly say that is 'constantly' benefitting the raid.
Wild Growth hits 6 targets 7 times each (6 ticks per second). If you're keeping up 10 Rejuvs (conservative estimate), you'll get ~23 Rejuv ticks in that same time period (~3.3 per second). This means you're getting ~10 possible Revitalize procs every second.
Revitalize has an 85% chance to NOT proc on a single tick. This means it has a ~20% chance to NOT proc 10 times in a row. This gives you about an 80% chance per second to proc a single revitalize per second and smaller chances to proc up to 10! (and this is a
conservative
estimate)
I'd say that's 'constantly' benefitting.
In a situation where you're raid healing, trading these 3 points in order to put them somewhere where you and your raid will get literally zero benefit seems at best ignorant, and at worst selfish.
Here's an
essay by Gorefiend
on the subject of Revitalize (among others), clearly he thoroughly understands all aspects of Revitalize, and he considers it 'essential.' Maybe you should too?
Post by
Heckler
this
is the spec i have planned for 80 as feral. i plan to be a tank main-spec and probably kitty dps on the side though i am not speccing specifically as dps.
My opinions on your Feral build:
If you're going to 'kitty dps on the side' you definitely want to pick up
Shredding Attacks
and
King of the Jungle
, they are
absolutely vital
to Cat DPS (you might consider Omen of Clarity as well -- I'll agree it's not needed as a Tank, but it is amazing as Cat).
To free up points to make this possible, you might consider dropping Master Shapeshifter -- Master Shapeshifter is a great talent, but it is rather expensive considering you must drop 3 into the rather useless Natural Shapeshifter in order to get it. (In a pure Tank or pure DPS build, I would call MS necessary, I only advise dropping it because you are hybridizing.)
is better than
in just about any PvE situation.
I use
this spec (0/60/11)
as my '
Hybridish-leaning-towards-Tanking-more-than-DPS
' spec. I've tanked up to ToC/Ony10 using it and hand-me-downs-from-cat gear (
here's my profile
, should be my tanking gear showing). Last ToC10 run I OT'd I was #1 on
damage done
to Icehowl (since I went cat for this phase) -- being able to DPS effectively in the same setup you can succesfully Tank in is pretty useful.
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340332
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Post by
Heckler
Purely out of interest, do you know the origins of your name?
Heckler
Of course I do =)
And our math is the same, basically. 10 Rejuvs = 3.33 procs per second. WG = 6 procs per second. = 9.33 procs per second. (By your methodology, ~1.5 procs per second)
If something has a 15% chance to happen, then it has an 85% chance to not happen. It has an 85% ^ 10 chance of not happening 10 times in a row, therefore. (0.85 * 0.85 * 0.85 ... = ~0.20 = ~20% chance of NOT happening every second, or 80% chance of happening
at least
once every second).
And I'm not trying to force anything down your throat -- the key misunderstanding here is that
you
said "RAID" instead of "GROUP" -- clearly this is a rather large mistake, my entire post would have been unnecessary if you didn't make it sound as if a druid on Raid healing duty would do better with 3/3 Living Seed than with 3/3 Revitalize. Don't be so quick to call me an elitist when, given your misstatement, you actually agree with me. (If you look at my profiles, you'll see I have
no
reason to be elitist. If all the OP is worried about is 5 mans, then he could probably roll with a boomkin spec and not have any trouble. 5 mans are pretty weak nowadays).
Perhaps you should focus more on educating instead of attempting to force your opinions on people.
The post right below the one you're responding to attempts to do exactly this. As I said in my last conversation with you, I'm generally a pretty nice guy. Even in my response to you, I never said anything rude or "forced" any opinion (unless you consider being called 'ignorant' rude... it doesn't have to be -- sometimes it's just true; I didn't mean that part to be insulting)
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340332
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Post by
Heckler
During the third WG you can have 16 rejuves ticking at the same time so u can achieve 1.7 pps from then on.
This is what I was trying to model -- no casting sequence is necessary to say that at
any given time
once you're rolling you should have Rejuv up on
at least
10 people, and WG on 6. This is why I call 10 Rejuvs a conservative estimate btw, as you said it should be closer to 16 Rejuvs.
I won't re-hash the math since we both come up with ~1.7 procs per second using this idea. A statistical way to show this result and to illustrate my method from my first post would be:
Let's say we have 3 ticks per second (to shrink the calculation), this means we have the following chances to cause procs:
0 procs - 0.85 * 0.85 * 0.85 = 0.614
1 procs - 0.85 * 0.85 * 0.15 = 0.108 * 3 = 0.325 (There's 3 ways to do this: miss, miss, proc; miss, proc, miss; etc)
2 procs - 0.85 * 0.15 * 0.15 = 0.019 * 3 = 0.057 (3 ways to do this one too)
3 procs - 0.15 * 0.15 * 0.15 = 0.003
So you can see the chances to get 0, 1, 2, 3 procs each second. If you set up a weighted average, you can figure out the
average
number of procs per second:
(0.614 * 0) + (0.325 * 1) + (0.057 * 2) + (0.003 * 3) = 0.45 pps
This agrees with the other method of saying you should get 0.15 procs for each tick, 3 ticks = 0.45 procs. The added benefit of this method is you can see each possibility and its chance. You can also say that you have a 38.6% chance to proc
at least
one per second, since you have a 61.4% chance to proc zero.
When you do larger numbers of combinations, you can use
Pascal's Triangle
to get the number of ways to 'choose' each combination, like for 9 it would be:
{1, 9, 36, 84, 126, 126, 84, 36, 9, 1} ways to get {0,1,2,...,9} procs
in general, pps is...
n
Σ
i=0
where each term of the sum represents the chances of getting i procs.
You can use the nCr ("n choose r" which means how many ways can you choose 'r' elements from a set of 'n' elements) button on your calculator, or you could
read this
. Interesting stuff there.
...Or you could just say (like you did) that each tick will result in 0.15 procs on average =)
By the way, I don't even play Resto very often -- I just read everything Gorefiend posts very carefully so if I ever decide to start, I'll have a clue what I'm doing... I consider him to be the most trustworthy source of Resto information around.
Post by
hashmel
14/0/52+5
is a solid healing spec, can put the last 5 in revitalize, living seed, imp tranq, natural perfection, subtlety, or tranquil spirit depending on your taste
personally i prefer living seed as it's free heals and imp tranq as a massive aoe heal on a 4 minute cd that i can pop during clearcasts is amazing to have onhand
as for feral if the intention is to primarily tank but derps on the side i'd take a KotJ tanking build
0/60/11
you have all the necessary talents for tanking while going for burst threat (tank) and energy regen (cat) and can put the 2 spare points in shredding attacks so you don't burn through energy, sacked glyph of SI so you can get SR in there making your dps moments at least comparable to someone else's
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260787
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