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Speculation on 4.X talents.
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Post by
dhampir1989
As we know, talents are getting altered, and mastery added. Looking at the three core PvE builds, however, priests seem a little shafted.
5 extra talent points, as the trees stand now, for both shadow and disc, look to be good for mastery bonuses and not much else. Holy has more flexibility, but as it stands, it seems to me that, assuming the core feel of the middle tiers of holy and disc stay roughly the same, that Blizzard's new system seems a little disappointing, as we will be speccing to min/max mastery.
Any thoughts?
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
dhampir1989
The Shadow tree will be mangled pretty badly.
I didnt really mention shadow, as no-one specs into it for off-main-tree benefits, however, as you say, a lot of talents are out, and some new will be added. Freeing up talent points wont really help much though.
Mid disc and early holy will likely be seeing similar pruning, but my main concern is the spells that the trees buff.
Assuming they stick with the same spells and add spangly tricks to them, won't disc and shadow be left getting lack-luster talents they'll almost never use in PvE, or being forced to spec into whichever tree gives the nicest bonuses for Mastery?
Post by
ande9249
my impression of what blizzard had to say on "new" talent trees would not include the twisted faith talent. reason is that it is creating a "new" effect from what you were experiencing before. Yes it does fit the criteria of "just more dps" but it does it in such a new perspective, so late in the tree that when you ding and put that first point in...you just might feel the difference.
Just for completion sake here is my view on talents that will be removed/revamped in the other two tree's:
Holy:
Holy Specialization
Improved renew
Improved healing
healing prayers
(really good opertunity here, "you heal for x amount when casting prayer of **** "
spiritual healing
empowered healing
(it seems most holy priests avoid this anyways)
and
divine providence
is iffy, i think the 30% CD reduction on PoM can be apreciated easily...but I have never done holy
Disc:
twin disciplines
Improved Power Word: Shield
(easily make this what we now know as the glyph)
absolution
mental agility
mental Stregnth
(debatable... you know you dont have it at the end of game...but lvling)
the next few will have 1/2 that are bleh, half that are good, can you tell which is which ?
enlightenment
focused power
focused will
(characteristic of all PvP hybrid talents)
improved flash heal
the greater issue I see is that while small crit% or small mana cost reduction, or small healing/dps increase is not exciting....
if you get rid of ALL of them you will notice. especially on the mana regen. now is it possible that the replenish effect from shadow or the rapture effect from disc or the holy concentration effect from holy will be at least equal to or better than all the other mana saving talents....doesnt mean you can really survive on them alone as it stands
in general you can expect more talents that are either:
complicated
situational
proc/crit chance related
or new spells
no more "background" talents or "Improved THIS" talents....instead we will have the background Mastery
Post by
dhampir1989
mental Stregnth
(debatable... you know you dont have it at the end of game...but lvling)
If any disc priest doesn't spec for Mental Strengththey need a slap.
Post by
cloudp
mental Stregnth
(debatable... you know you dont have it at the end of game...but lvling)
If any disc priest doesn't spec for Mental Strengththey need a slap.
Not only because that 15% int is completely yummee. It grants access to Power Infusion. Not having it is a serious gimp indeed.
Post by
ande9249
sorry, I was not saying that it was debatable as in a Good talent or a talent we should take, nearly as much as a talent that is "boring" or just a basic stat buff. The reason why it isnt boring, because yes some priests can feel the difference in the gameplay with or without it.
however when you dinged 30 or so did you seriously say "YAY 3% more intellect Please"
Post by
dhampir1989
sorry, I was not saying that it was debatable as in a Good talent or a talent we should take, nearly as much as a talent that is "boring" or just a basic stat buff. The reason why it isnt boring, because yes some priests can feel the difference in the gameplay with or without it.
however when you dinged 30 or so did you seriously say "YAY 3% more intellect Please"
Yes. That's roughly eqivalent to the int on a single piece of reasonable gear at level 30.
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
dhampir1989
Yes. That's roughly eqivalent to the int on a single piece of reasonable gear at level 30.
That's a pretty redundant thing to say, don't you think? It's a percentage; of course it's going to be the equivalent of your current gear: percentages scale. That's the point. It doesn't mean it's significant.
Actually, its more of a boost at lower levels in comparison to gear, because base int dominates int from gear.
My warlock (because i was on him at the time) has ~500% base int from gear, my level 30 shammy has ~150% base int.
In terms of relative merit to gear, 3% of my warlock's int is ~75% of the int from an average piece of gear, but for my shaman its ~100%
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
dhampir1989
It doesn't matter where it comes from. 3% int is still a minuscule amount that is not worth getting excited about. At level 30 I recall having about 1.5k mana. So at 34 I'd have an extra ~200 from 5/5 Mental Strength? "You can cast one extra spell before you have to drink". Not exciting.
You obviously didnt have to heal the groups I wound up with >.>
Its not "exciting", but it is a tangible benefit at that level, unlike the majority of disc talents.
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
dhampir1989
Its not "exciting", but it is a tangible benefit at that level, unlike the majority of disc talents.
Its tangibility is still of the same boring nature, though.
Darkness
is tangible. Doesn't mean it's significant -- and it's the
boring
talents that Blizzard are planning to turn into the "Mastery" thingies.
Oh I am very aware it will go away, its just one of the nicer ones that will go.
I disagree about darkness, its not a really noticable boost when you obtain it.
Post by
MegaVolt
They should get rid of the disc tree as healing and turn it into an unarmed melee combat tree. Battle monks ftw!
Post by
17744
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
300899
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kataly
They should get rid of the disc tree as healing and turn it into an unarmed melee combat tree. Battle monks ftw!
...No. Just no.
Post by
ande9249
lol about the tolltip for shadow, but honestly, that might be one of the things they try to "fix" think about it. instead of having all of the wonderful blessed effects come in with the addition of a single talent point, doesnt it make more sense to a) make shadow form available earlier and b) get better with deeper investment in the tree:
so lets say at tier 5 (or lvl 30) you get shadow form for 1 TP, it increases your shadow damage by 15% and reduces damage by 15%
then tier 6 (lvl 35) you get Vampirc embrace
then tier 7 (lvl 40 or where it is currently) you have "eveloping shadow form: your DP, VT, and SW:P spells can now crit while in shadow form"
and then at tier 8 (lvl 45) you can pick up the "Quickend shadow form: your DP and VT spells gain benefit from haste while in shadow form"
tier 9 (lvl 50) is VT as normal
and tier 10 (lvl 55) can include something like "Shadow form Aura: increases the shadow resistance of all raid members by 50 while you are in shadow form"
Some of you might argue that Expanding 1 tp into three isnt cool, but it would clean up the tooltip in the talent tree some, even if not in game
Edit: sorry, forgot about the PvP changes on shadow form "Evasive shadow form" about where it is now, its funny because when you put it all together it would become the "Evasive Quickened Enveloping Shadowform" :)
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