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So...Skyrim
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Post by
322702
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Starting over (again....) this time going for ummmm ether a nord or a khajiit
pfft, GO ORC DUDE. Best race in all of tamriel.
LOK'TAR OGAR!
Ejem, wrong franchise.
Post by
Gone
Starting over (again....) this time going for ummmm ether a nord or a khajiit
pfft, GO ORC DUDE.
Best race in all of tamriel.
LOK'TAR OGAR!
Ejem, wrong franchise.
Redguards have curved swords. Need I say more?
Of course Nords are still better.
EDIT: One thing that dissapoints me a bit about Skyrim btw, is the companion system. Oblivions was bland, Fallout 3s was ok but kinda meh. Fallout: New Vegas on the other hand had awesome companion quests. I especially liked Boon and Cass, but all of them were fun. I wish Skyrim had implimented a little bit more of that.
Post by
322702
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
I havnt played since I beat Dawnguard like a month ago. I think Imma break the game out again and work on some of my side quests, maybe make a new character.
Post by
Rankkor
So......Arondil..................................ya.......... We got, rape (since they were under his thrall so he forced them against their will), necrophilia, necromancy, and murder for the sake of necromancy and necrophiliac rape. The only way this could be any more !@#$ed up is if they were undead
children
. Holy crap this quest was dark, Bethesda has balls, I like it.
You think that's bad? :P you should see the "other" Bethesda game they made. New Vegas.
Now, after you meet the Cesar Legion, you will NEVER EVER EVER see other villains in video-games the same way. These guys would make nazis look like a Hello kitty/MLP Fan Club.
By far the darkest game they've ever made. Not just because it has the most evil villains I've ever seen in gaming (and you can even join them if you want..... O_o) but because of its degree of Violence. On skyrim, you only behead people by accident. On New Vegas, that's common practice.
Unless you turn down the violence slider of course.
Post by
Rankkor
Starting over (again....) this time going for ummmm ether a nord or a khajiit
pfft, GO ORC DUDE.
Best race in all of tamriel.
LOK'TAR OGAR!
Ejem, wrong franchise.
Redguards have curved swords. Need I say more?
And orcs have (at least in morrowind, god only knows why on earth would they dare to change that on Oblivion and Skyrim) FU**KING SAMURAI WEAPONS AND ARMOR!
need I say more?
EDIT: One thing that dissapoints me a bit about Skyrim btw, is the companion system. Oblivions was bland, Fallout 3s was ok but kinda meh. Fallout: New Vegas on the other hand had awesome companion quests. I especially liked Boon and Cass, but all of them were fun. I wish Skyrim had implimented a little bit more of that.
Agreed, the party system on oblivion was so terrible, I never once had a single one. On Fallout 3 it was so-so but since they could be killed, I never used them, New Vegas has the best of them all by a landslide. And Skyrim, it could had been better had they added New Vegas' control system.
Plus, most of the Skyrim companions are pretty flat characters with no personality. The only first good one they've added (IMO) is Serena from Dawnguard. Now she's a fantastic companion.
Post by
Gone
New vegas had to be the darkest game Ive ever played, but it still had a alot of funny zaney moments, especially if you choose the Wild wasteland perk. It was buggy as all Hell though. And they should have let you side with the chairmen... They were so
ring-a-ding-ding
baby.
But the biggest thing that made their companion system better than Skyrim (besides Rex) is the fact that they would actually interact with what was currently happening. They would also have more in depth quests that would arise the longer that you traveled with them.
Post by
Rankkor
New vegas had to be the darkest game Ive ever played
I'll second that.
but it still had a alot of funny zaney moments
That's what makes it so good, its ability to mix true horror, some of the darkest moments you will see in video-gaming (I swear to god, Meeting Caesar face to face and see the conditions his people live under had to be one of the most unnerving moments I've had playing a game. Meeting the real shape of Mister House wasn't any better) Mixed with some truly awesome humor, and some downright CRAZY moments that make you think they made this game under LSD influence.
Truly a harmonious awesome mix.
It was buggy as all Hell though
Fan-made patches bro', patches for everyone.
And they should have let you side with the chairmen... They were so ring-a-ding-ding baby.
Yeah, the "Independent" ending should had been you allying with some of the more liberal factions on New Vegas, rather than just hoof it alone. I would had liked that the Independent ending had you choosing from the minor factions like the Kings and the Chairmen to support you in taking over New Vegas.
But the biggest thing that made their companion system better than Skyrim (besides Rex) is the fact that they would actually interact with what was currently happening. They would also have more in depth quests that would arise the longer that you traveled with them.
Not to mention that they had more personality to them, and character development. On skyrim the best developed companion is Serena, since she actually interacts with the world, she will comment on the weather, on the time of day, on the location you are, if you are fighting dragons, if you secured a truce, who's side on the war you are, ect ect.
She actually has something to say about everything in the game. Which makes her a far more interesting companion than the completely flat 4 dozen ones the game included by default.
Post by
Gone
Fan-made patches bro', patches for everyone.
I played it on my 360, so that wasnt really an option for me at the time. I learned to save constantly though, after I lost an entire file where I was constantly relying on the autosave, and I wound up finding myself trapped inside a room in the automaic wrangler that locked from the outside T.T
Yeah, the "Independent" ending should had been you allying with some of the more liberal factions on New Vegas, rather than just hoof it alone. I would had liked that the Independent ending had you choosing from the minor factions like the Kings and the Chairmen to support you in taking over New Vegas.
I think most of the fans decided to side with Yes-Man on their first playthrough. His description of you being able to take over Vegas made it seem like you were the new Mr. House, and the securitrons would answer to you and such, but thats not really how it wound up.
I recently finished another play through of New Vegas where I actually chose to side with the legion. I love how twisted the endings were, them roaming across the Mojavi wiping out anybody they deemed to be scum. One thing I will say about the Legion, that they at least put the fear of God in all the bandits and roaming outlaws out there.
Plus Legate Lanius is pretty &*!@ing badass. On my first playthough I had maxed speech so I basically talked him into leaving. I love the speech he gives at the end
"Violence gave you strength, awakened you- I can see it upon your face, where two bullets left their mark"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjffbUgfVME
I prefer Elder Scrolls, but the Dominion aint got @#$% on the Legion,
HAIL CAESAR!
Perhaps I take the rp part of my last game too seriously...
but seriously anybody who liked Skyrim and Oblivion needs to go and play Fallout 3 and New vegas, NOW!
Post by
Rankkor
I played it on my 360, so that wasnt really an option for me at the time.
Another reason why I LOVE PCs, I do, I really really do.
I think most of the fans decided to side with Yes-Man on their first playthrough. His description of you being able to take over Vegas made it seem like you were the new Mr. House, and the securitrons would answer to you and such, but thats not really how it wound up.
Actually that's exactly how it wound up (and yes I went for independence first)
Basically there's 2 variations of the independent ending. Version 1 is where you don't gain 100% game completion. On this variation, NOBODY rules New Vegas, the Securitrons try and fail to maintain order, and in the end, chaos ensues as everyone who wanna be anyone tries their hardest to rise to power.
Version 2 is when you do gain 100% game completion which basically means doing EVERY.SINGLE.QUEST THERE IS on the entire game. Do this, and the Securitrons will answer to you, they will maintain order on New Vegas, and the entire Mojave Wasteland becomes a safe haven for everyone on the east coast.
I recently finished another play through of New Vegas where I actually chose to side with the legion. I love how twisted the endings were, them roaming across the Mojavi wiping out anybody they deemed to be scum. One thing I will say about the Legion, that they at least put the fear of God in all the bandits and roaming outlaws out there.
Plus Legate Lanius is pretty &*!@ing badass. On my first playthough I had maxed speech so I basically talked him into leaving. I love the speech he gives at the end
"Violence gave you strength, awakened you- I can see it upon your face, where two bullets left their mark"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjffbUgfVME
I prefer Elder Scrolls, but the Dominion aint got @#$% on the Legion, HAIL CAESAR!
Yep. The Aldimeri Dominion is bad, but they at least execute their victims swiftly and painlessly. The legion CRUCIFIES PEOPLE. (and if you don't know anything about crucifixion, its THE most painful and slowest way to die imaginable. It can take up to a full week depending on your body, and every excruciating second will be spent in the most pure horrible agony. That you can do this to other people if you side with the legion is what makes them THE most evil villain group in the whole game)
but seriously anybody who liked Skyrim and Oblivion needs to go and play Fallout 3 and New vegas, NOW!
No question about it, Not one. In fact, if you like Skyrim and haven't played Fallout 3 and/or New Vegas, your fan card has to be revoked.
Post by
Gone
Actually that's exactly how it wound up (and yes I went for independence first)
Yea but thats after you finish the game. What I thought would happen is you get full on control of Vegas as soon as you upload Yes-Man to Mr. Houses mainframe.
Yep. The Aldimeri Dominion is bad, but they at least execute their victims swiftly and painlessly. The legion CRUCIFIES PEOPLE. (and if you don't know anything about crucifixion, its THE most painful and slowest way to die imaginable. It can take up to a full week depending on your body, and every excruciating second will be spent in the most pure horrible agony. That you can do this to other people if you side with the legion is what makes them THE most evil villain group in the whole game)
Well I meant the Legion i more badass and such, but tbh I feel like the Dominion is more evil.
You have to realise that Fallout is a much harsher world than Elder Scrolls. In some ways (I hope I dont sound like a nut here) the Legion may be better for the Mojavi than the NCR. The Legion may be harsh, but at least they dont fail to protect their people, look at all the attrocities that occur on the NCRs watch:
- A Fiend leader named Cook-Cook that has a thing for raping women then setting them on fire.
- The Powder Gangers massacer the town of Goodsprings.
- Countless caravans and travelers getting robbed and killed by raiders.
Ok I would have had more examples but I cant remember them :/
But its an ongoing theme that the NCR utterly fails to protect its people, where as many people say that life in Legion territory is much safer. Cassidy says that any traveler bearing the Mark of Caesar in Legion territory is safe as can be, and even without it most of the criminals and bandits are either dead or run off.
Most of the people the Legion torture or crucify are drug dealers or bandits or powder gangers. Its a harsher justice than the NCR, but in a harsher world it seems to work.
The one thing that really prevents me from arguing for the Legion is its treatment of women, basically using them as chattel and slaves and such. I get crucifiction of scumbags, and I can even understand allowing the weak to die off, I may not be able to condone it, but in the harsh post apocalyptic world of Fallout I understand it. But like I dont really see the logic behind the way they treat women, even capable women like Cassidy or Sunny Smiles.
So as long as the shadier stuff like that goes on, I would have to support the NCR over the Legion. But thats not to say the Legions methods dont bear any consideration...
Another thing I forgot to mention that I love about Fallout btw, is Ron Perlman doing the openings/endings. Such an awesome %^&*ing voice actor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLnES01mWT8
EDIT: Idk if Im missing something or what, but I dont think Auriels Bow is the best in the game, at least not according to mind.
Auriels, after being upgraded to Flawless does 64 damage on its own, plus 20 points of sun damage, plus 16 damage with Sunhallwed arrows. So thats 100 damage all together.
My Daedric bow on the other hand, after bing upgraded to legendary does 96 damage on its own, plus my ebony arrows do 20 damage. So thats 116 all together.
Am I missings ome kind of upgrade or something? Caus if not it seems to me teh Daedric bow still beats Auriels, unless Im fighting undead, in which case Auriels gets an extra 40 damage from the magic effect being trippled.
Post by
Rankkor
The Legion treats women like cattle, worse than animals, less than human beings. That mitigates everything else they may accomplish.
Much like how I rationalize the Empire on Skyrim as being in the wrong: Everything good they do, is automatically invalidated when they support and bend over to the dominion.
Siding with the empire means that if you see a caravan of Thalmor Justicars escorting a prisoner to be tortured and killed, you have to let them go, being your allies and all that.
Plus, maybe its a coincidence (or not) but the stormcloak controlled cities (Riften and Windhelm mostly) have male and female guards. But Empire controlled ones (Solitude, Whiterun, and Markarth) have only male ones. It bears mulling over.
As for the legion on New Vegas, they don't just dispatch brutal justice to criminals, they do so to innocents as well, there is this town (nipton) where they executed everyone. They attacked the town, rounded up all the civilians, and held a lottery. The winner of that lottery would be spared and allowed to walk away freely. The second-place runner would also be left alive, but kneecaped.
It gets better, the rest of the town that drew odd numbers would be crucified, and those that drew even numbers would be enslaved.
Those that fought back were decapitated and their heads placed on spikes, while their corpses were fed to the dogs. And these were all civilians, a few NCR troops here and there, but mostly a civilian town.
Bottom Line: The legion may impose order among the chaos, but the price to get there is too high. Public execution, complete and total disregard for human life, all females are treated worse than animals, all sickly executed on the spot, and of course the biggest reason the legion don't work:
Its all structured around one man, Caesar. As soon as Caesar kicks the bucket, his entire castle made of cards comes crashing down. In the ending where you support the legion, if you off Caesar, on the prologue it shows the legion collapsed on itself, as the Legate was too harsh and too brutal, and eventually lost its empire.
I don't really like the NCR (To me, they are the equivalent of the Empire in Skyrim, all taking, ZERO giving, always looking after THEIR interest, but nothing about the people) but the Legion are far worse.
IMO the only morally superior chose is Mister House (just barely) and Independence. By going NCR or Legion, you pretty much screw the entire Mojave Wasteland.
Just look at this little excerpt from Caesar himself:
- Courier: "Why is the Legion so...strange?"
- Caesar: "
I used Imperial Rome as the model for my Legion precisely because it was so foreign, so alien. I'd seen what had become of the NCR's attempt to emulate the culture of Pre-War America - the infighting, the corruption. Rome was a highly militarized autocracy that effectively integrated the foreign cultures it conquered. It dedicated its citizens to something higher than themselves - to the idea of Rome itself. In Rome, I found a template for a society equal to the challenges of the post-apocalyptic world - a society that could and would survive. A society that could prevent mankind from fracturing and destroying itself in this new world, by establishing a new Pax Romana.
"
- Courier: "What does "Pax Romana" mean?"
- Caesar: "
It means a
nationalist, imperialist, totalitarian, homogeneous culture
that obliterates the identity of every group it conquers. Long term stability at all costs.
The individual has no value beyond his utility to the state
, whether as an instrument of war or production.
Awesome, so............. human beings are tools, not people, individual identity is non-existent, right to rule is derived from pure violence and barbarism, the state will never settle with what it has, it will always be constantly expanding, forever and ever (Hint: This is what led to the eventual demise of the real Imperial Legion) and the entire point of the society is to wage war.
Seeing as the world of Fallout is in such shambles BECAUSE of war, promoting a society that LIVES FOR WAR, is hardly a good idea.
Ohh and did I mentioned they legalized rape? yep, apparently since women are tools, capable of producing more tools, every woman found has to be raped and impregnated to produce more children. No exceptions.
Honestly, the only group in the entire game that could be seen as more evil than the Legion, is the Fiends, and that's because they're so drugged up, they don't even act like human beings anymore, they're almost borderline feral.
Post by
322702
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
As for the legion on New Vegas, they don't just dispatch brutal justice to criminals, they do so to innocents as well, there is this town (nipton) where they executed everyone. They attacked the town, rounded up all the civilians, and held a lottery. The winner of that lottery would be spared and allowed to walk away freely. The second-place runner would also be left alive, but kneecaped.
It gets better, the rest of the town that drew odd numbers would be crucified, and those that drew even numbers would be enslaved.
Those that fought back were decapitated and their heads placed on spikes, while their corpses were fed to the dogs. And these were all civilians, a few NCR troops here and there, but mostly a civilian town.
Bottom Line: The legion may impose order among the chaos, but the price to get there is too high. Public execution, complete and total disregard for human life, all females are treated worse than animals, all sickly executed on the spot, and of course the biggest reason the legion don't work:
Technically Nipton was destroyed because they were harboring Powder Gangers. Im not saying that wasnt brutal, and even cruel or evil, but like I said you cant judge them by modern morality when they live in a much more brutal world. That just might be what it takes to survive.
Its all structured around one man, Caesar. As soon as Caesar kicks the bucket, his entire castle made of cards comes crashing down. In the ending where you support the legion, if you off Caesar, on the prologue it shows the legion collapsed on itself, as the Legate was too harsh and too brutal, and eventually lost its empire.
It all depends on what decisions you make. In my ending I killed Caesar and Lanius took over, and it talked about how the Legion brought a new harsh civilization to the west.
Honestly, the only group in the entire game that could be seen as more evil than the Legion, is the Fiends, and that's because they're so drugged up, they don't even act like human beings anymore, they're almost borderline feral.
Idk about that, I think 100% the Enclave is more evil than the Legion. Theyve commited attrocities just as bad if not worse. Except the Legion is only doing what it has to in order to survive, tone could even argue their barbarism is the product of evolution, they adapt in order to survive in their harsh enviorment.
The Enclave on the other hand has the tools to be one of the greatest forces good, but instead of trying to save hummanity, they just try and save their ideal of it. Anybody effected by radiation dies, ghouls and super mutants die, anybody born in the wastes dies. Not to mention the twsited little gennocidal experiments they preformed on the people in the vaults.
Not sure if the Master was more evil, but I think he was just as bad. And his agenda wasnt as productive (for humans at least), so I would rank him and his ilk as worse than the Legion as well.
I certainly think any of the individual gangs would be much worse than the Legion if they had as wide scale of a reach and power.
Ohh and did I mentioned they legalized rape? yep, apparently since women are tools, capable of producing more tools, every woman found has to be raped and impregnated to produce more children. No exceptions.
But rape happens to NCR citizens too. I meantioned that Fiend who liked to light chicks onf ire afterwards right? And what do you think the first thing the Powder Gangers probably do when they take over a town is? The first thing the Legion does after taking the Hoover Dam is wipe them all off the face of the earth.
I also wanna point out that if the NCR didnt have better tech, then they would be completley innept as a goverment. If it werent for their guns, and aircraft, and such, then they would either have to be as brutal as the legion, or they would be unable to control even a fraction of the territory they do now.
The better weapons and training you have, the more you can afford to be an idealist. Just look at the Brotherhood of Steel in the Capital Wastes from F3.
Im not trying to defend them, there are a lot of reprehensible things about the Legion. But big picture wise they are still better at imposing order, and protecting their people than the NCR. Hell if it werent for the way they treat their women and maybe a few other things, I would strait up say that the Legion is 100% the better choice for the hard curel world of Fallout. At least when compared with the NCR.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Idk about that, I think 100% the Enclave is more evil than the Legion.
Hrm, you may have a point, I had forgotten about the enclave. Still, the legion is almost just as bad.
But rape happens to NCR citizens too.
Ya but its one thing that it happens because the NCR is too incompetent to do anything about it, and another can of worms entirely when the legion ENCOURAGES it to happen. At least the NCR is not encouraging rape of any kind. Its still technically illegal.
I also wanna point out that if the NCR didnt have better tech, then they would be completley innept as a goverment.
IMO they're already incredibly inept as a government, which is why I don't side with them in the ending (IMO only the House, or Independent ending is where you don't screw over the Mojave Wasteland)
Any government that only looks out for their interest and cares zero for their people doesn't have the right to rule. The NCR only cares about taxing the population, and squeezing them for as much as possible, without caring about protecting them. IF they can protect them, they do, if they can't.............. they won't lose any sleep over it.
The better weapons and training you have, the more you can afford to be an idealist. Just look at the Brotherhood of Steel in the Capital Wastes from F3.
But the thing is: The Legion could have better tech if they wanted to, except they ban technology and modern medicine on their lands. Effectively cutting off scientific progress (Still this doesn't stop Caesar from having a med-bot with him to treat his brain cancer............ pft, what a hypocrite)
Hell if it werent for the way they treat their women and maybe a few other things, I would strait up say that the Legion is 100% the better choice for the hard curel world of Fallout.
And "a few other things"? did you read my caesar quote? at all?
Things that are wrong with the legion:
1: Women are less than human beings, they are cattle, animals, with no rights, and who's only job is to pop out children, and do every form of manual labor imaginable.
2: Rape is legalized and encouraged among the legion citizen, if you see a woman not pregnant, you are entirely allowed and encouraged to fill her womb of as many babies as you can.
3: Once you reach a certain age and become an elderly citizen you've forfeited your right to live and are promptly executed.
4: All the benefits of modern medicine and technology are denied to the people (but conveniently not the leadership) effectively imposing a dark age over the world.
5: They use child-soldiers. Every single male boy is trained since age 10 to fight. Legate Lanius himself became a legionnaire at age 12. This is not a choice, its mandatory.
6: Human people are not seen as human beings, but as tool, your worth to the legion depends exclusively on how you can contribute to it. meaning anyone sick, elder, or crippled has no right to live.
7: Human Slavery is not only openly encouraged, but its their main way of life. Life in Legion territory may be so-so for non-slaves, but for slaves, you are condemned to live in the 9th circle of hell.
8: Individual identity is denied, you're a part of a machine, not an individual, this means creativism and art are banned as well.
9: Cultural diversity is denied as well, once you are a part of Nova Roma, your previous identity is suppressed. Forever. NO exeptions.
10: Openly engages in Cannibalism, and this practice is encouraged, in order to save resources.
Seriously, life in legion-controlled territory (like Arizona) is only good if you happen to belong in a very VERY specific and narrow group (Specifically Male, Young, Healthy, and Fit). If you don't meet the above criteria (Which is a lot of people) life is borderline hellish and death may actually be a reasonable outcome.
Again, I wont defend the NCR, to me they represent just about everything that is wrong with a democratic government, and while I agree that a harsh dystopian future requires a harsher government than what we got today, there's a line we shouldn't cross or else stop being humans and start being animals. The legion, more than cross it, they skipped their way around it, peppered it with blood, and covered it with all the women they rape and abuse, all the children they kill and conscript, and all the villages they plunder and burn.
But big picture wise they are still better at imposing order, and protecting their people than the NCR.
I disagree. These are the kind of people that will KILL YOU if you so much as get a cold (no sick allowed, no medicine either), will confiscate your daughters to rape them for the rest of their lives, will confiscate your sons to make them shock troopers the moment they can hold weapons, will execute you once you live past 50, and wont even allow you the dignity of a burial, nope, your corpse will feed the troops.
yay what an awesome future indeed.
Post by
Gone
But the thing is: The Legion could have better tech if they wanted to, except they ban technology and modern medicine on their lands. Effectively cutting off scientific progress (Still this doesn't stop Caesar from having a med-bot with him to treat his brain cancer............ pft, what a hypocrite)
As far as I know all thats banned in the Legion are chems and drugs. As you said Caesar has a med bot, and he sometimes lends it out to people as a gift. There was also a quest where the Legion was trying to buy a bunch of energy weapons from the Van Graffs, and the NCR busted in and killed them.
The Legion evolved from tribes, they can scavenge for guns and ammo, but they dont have a continious supply of it being manufactored for them like the NCR do. Thats why most of them, particularly the praetorian guard choose not to rely on second class weapons that will jam, or a scavanged supply of ammo that will run out.
And "a few other things"? did you read my caesar quote? at all?
Things that are wrong with the legion:
1: Women are less than human beings, they are cattle, animals, with no rights, and who's only job is to pop out children, and do every form of manual labor imaginable.
2: Rape is legalized and encouraged among the legion citizen, if you see a woman not pregnant, you are entirely allowed and encouraged to fill her womb of as many babies as you can.
3: Once you reach a certain age and become an elderly citizen you've forfeited your right to live and are promptly executed.
4: All the benefits of modern medicine and technology are denied to the people (but conveniently not the leadership) effectively imposing a dark age over the world.
5: They use child-soldiers. Every single male boy is trained since age 10 to fight. Legate Lanius himself became a legionnaire at age 12. This is not a choice, its mandatory.
6: Human people are not seen as human beings, but as tool, your worth to the legion depends exclusively on how you can contribute to it. meaning anyone sick, elder, or crippled has no right to live.
7: Human Slavery is not only openly encouraged, but its their main way of life. Life in Legion territory may be so-so for non-slaves, but for slaves, you are condemned to live in the 9th circle of hell.
8: Individual identity is denied, you're a part of a machine, not an individual, this means creativism and art are banned as well.
9: Cultural diversity is denied as well, once you are a part of Nova Roma, your previous identity is suppressed. Forever. NO exeptions.
10: Openly engages in Cannibalism, and this practice is encouraged, in order to save resources.
Now before I say this I want to reiderate that I am speaking of this as a fictional story, I neither condone nor would ever accept any of these things in real life.
That being said, from the point of view of a post apocalyptic world like Fallout, the only thing there I really think is evil or uneccisary is the treatment of women (slavery, rape, etc).
Child soldiers were used in the middle ages, in Rome, Greece, even as recent as the civil war they had 14 year old kids fighting. Its an ugly part of history, but in darker days its part of life, and Fallout counts.
As far as the cinnibalism thing goes, thats hardly just the Legion. Dont tell me you think Mr. House didnt know what the White Gloves were up to. Hell he recruited them as one of the leading familys of Vegas knowing exactlly what they were.
I agree that a harsh dystopian future requires a harsher government than what we got today, there's a line we shouldn't cross or else stop being humans and start being animals.
One of the major themes of a post apocalyptic genre are that people eventually do have to cross that line, or push the line. Im not saying its pretty, but its there.
Let me ask you a question. Do you think that the original Romans were evil? They crucified people and kept slaves. The Greeks would either kill off their sick and elderly as well, or simply let them die. Women were used as comodeties up untill only a few hundred years ago. Do you think that human society was basically evil up untill only the past few hundred years? Or do you think these evils were neccisary evils due to the tiimes?
Post by
Rankkor
Now before I say this I want to reiderate that I am speaking of this as a fictional story, I neither condone nor would ever accept any of these things in real life.
That being said, from the point of view of a post apocalyptic world like Fallout, the only thing there I really think is evil or uneccisary is the treatment of women (slavery, rape, etc).
Child soldiers were used in the middle ages, in Rome, Greece, even as recent as the civil war they had 14 year old kids fighting. Its an ugly part of history, but in darker days its part of life, and Fallout counts.
It was wrong then, and its wrong now.
As far as the cinnibalism thing goes, thats hardly just the Legion. Dont tell me you think Mr. House didnt know what the White Gloves were up to. Hell he recruited them as one of the leading familys of Vegas knowing exactlly what they were
Much like the argument about the NCR and raping, its one thing to look the other way (which is bad) and OPENLY ENCOURAGING THE ACT (Which is worse)
One of the major themes of a post apocalyptic genre are that people eventually do have to cross that line, or push the line. Im not saying its pretty, but its there.
I disagree. The major theme of this game (much like Lord of the Flies) is what people would do if all social order was torn apart overnight, if civilization as a whole was demolished in one big giant flash. Should we bother to rebuild society, and civilization? or devolve back to feral Neanderthals?
Let me ask you a question. Do you think that the original Romans were evil? They crucified people and kept slaves. The Greeks would either kill off their sick and elderly as well, or simply let them die. Women were used as comodeties up untill only a few hundred years ago. Do you think that human society was basically evil up untill only the past few hundred years?
Hell yes. The darker civilizations were a shady point of humanity, and the whole point of evolution is to improve ourselves. Older civilizations were self-destructive societies, why do you think they don't exist anymore? You really think an empire like Mongolia could had realistically self-sustain itself through all the conquest, raping, plundering and pillaging? no, as soon as they ran out of enemies, they start tearing each other apart.
This is why a civil society is needed, were coexistence is the norm rather than domineering through brute force. Look at the Boomers. They're highly xenophobic, gun nuts, very militaristic, and love to blow stuff up. And yet, they're one of the most prosperous societies on Mojave. They were able to survive in a harsh dystopian future, and they didn't needed to revert back to barbarism to do it.
Or do you think these evils were neccisary evils due to the tiimes?
Not at all. These evil were so unnecessary, calling them "Overkill" would be an understatement. Back then what was the main difference from now? less humans, and less powerful weapons. That's it.
Why on earth would all that barbarism be necessary? Again, we're humans, not animals, we shouldn't need to reverse back to a feral state whenever the crap hits the fan. Ideally, even in times of crisis, we should still act like men. There is pragmatism, and there is borderline animalistic behavior.
Boomers are pragmatic. Not what I'd call a bunch of saints, but people doing what needs to be done to survive. The legion however, does a lot of stuff that is not only unnecessary, but also self-destructive (all that misogyny is gonna bite them in the ass. Its why it felt so satisfactory to kill them all with a female character). That's not pragmatism, that's being a savage for funsies.
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Gone
It was wrong then, and its wrong now.
Thats judging by todays standards though, back then when you were 14 or 15 you were basically considered a man.
I disagree. The major theme of this game (much like Lord of the Flies) is what people would do if all social order was torn apart overnight, if civilization as a whole was demolished in one big giant flash. Should we bother to rebuild society, and civilization? or devolve back to feral Neanderthals?
Well the game has a bunch of different themes, hence the multiple ending scenerios. Theres the tribal savages and warlords (the legion), the pseudo goverment rebulding from old technology (the NCR), the religious fanatics who are serving a higher calling (the Brotherhood), the secret enigmatic, Wizard of Oz like character with an army of futuristic robots (Mr. House). It takes all the post apacolyptic cliches and meshes them all.
For example the independant ending kind of reminded me of the Book of Eli, no real goverment imposing order, just isolated civilizations strivingf or survival, with certain individuals making the world a better or worse place.
Then the Legion ending kind of reminds me of Cormac Mcarthys The Road, very dark and brutal. Cannibalism, rape, murder a commonplace. Warlords imposing their idea of order with armys of savages.
Hell yes. The darker civilizations were a shady point of humanity, and the whole point of evolution is to improve ourselves. Older civilizations were self-destructive societies, why do you think they don't exist anymore? You really think an empire like Mongolia could had realistically self-sustain itself through all the conquest, raping, plundering and pillaging? no, as soon as they ran out of enemies, they start tearing each other apart.
One could also argue though, that we needed the structure that those brutal societies gave us in order to build what we have now. Would the Legion eventually fall? Yes. But whos to say that just like ancient Rome, who they model themselves after, it wouldnt provide teh building blocks for the new future of hummanity.
The NCR offers order, but are unnable to maintain it. To me thats basically anarchy, which is the same thing you get with the independant ending. I mean without the corriuer running around like some desert messiah, the gangs would rule the Mojave without the NCR or the Legion.
Why on earth would all that barbarism be necessary? Again, we're humans, not animals, we shouldn't need to reverse back to a feral state whenever the crap hits the fan.
Ideally
, even in times of crisis, we should still act like men. There is pragmatism, and there is borderline animalistic behavior.
Because humans can be barbaric, and act liek animals when pushed to that. The point of my brining up all those ancient societys (some of them not so ancient) is to show what humans become when they dont have the comfort of society.
Ideally we should still act like men in times of crisis yes. But Fallout isnt really a crisis that eventually ends, its a new more barbaric way of life. And theres no place for idealism there, because historys shown us time and again what human beings really act like in deperate times.
Do we have good individuals? Yes. And I believe the NCR for example is good at heart, they do care about the future of hummanity. But all they offer is chaos and anarchy. So if it takes a force like the Legion to stomp out that anarchy, then yes. let the Legion do that, and serve their purpose, just like ancient Rome did. Then when the time comes they will eventually fall, and a new society will use the builing blocks they left to build something better.
Thats always happened in history, 500 years after the events of Fallout the Legion might just be one of those dark times in history we were talking about.
I hope Im not being argumentative btw, I like to play devils advocate but people have told me it can be annoying Xp
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