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So...Skyrim
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Post by
Rankkor
Here's my take on both sides who present strong arguments to support them. Bear in mind that ultimately I decided to support the stormcloaks for no other reason that they opose the Thalmor.
STORMCLOAKS
Pro's of the Stormcloaks: They seek to maintain the culture of the nords. The empire seeks to suppress their traditions, religion, and freedom in order to appease a nation of tyrants, which makes the empire Tyrants themselves by proxy. By supporting the rebellion, skyrim remains independant, its people retain their culture and their freedom of speech and religion.
Con's of the Stormcloaks: too nationalists, Ulfric specially is kinda a racist, since he cares for the problems of the nords and ONLY the nords, so much that his city of windhelm segregates the dark elves into slums and he never lifts a finger to help non-nords unless their problems affect the nords. This guy is the one who wishes to be king, and considering that all kingdoms of tamriel have people of multiple ethnicities, that's not good. True that most of skyrim is made of nords but several other cultures also call it their home, and they deserve leadership that also gives a crap about their issues as well.
IMPERIALS
Pro's of the Imperials: They claim that the only way to make a dent to the Thalmor is by remaining united, They despise the thalmor as much as the stormcloaks do, but they signed the White-treaty concord to prevent total annihilation. By their point of view, secession will lead to a weaker opposition, and once the Thalmor get the gloves off, they will have an easier time picking off each nation individually than they would facing a unified continent. I gotta be honest there,
I can't find any flaw of logic on their plan, the Thalmor have flat-out admitted that the current truce will NOT last, and their ultimate goal is the complete and total extermination and purge of every single human being in tamriel (and by extension any race deemed inferior to them, which means everyone who is not of Aldmari descend). So, them fighting a stranded cyrodiil and then a stranded skyrim, and then a stranded hammerfell and then a stranded high-rock would be much easier than fighting a unified cyrodiil plus skyrim plus hammerfell, plus high-rock.
Con's of the Imperials: they are bending over the Thalmor, while its true that alone each nation is weaker, the fact remains that the empire already fought together AND LOST. That's right, all nations put together fought and lost against the dominion, and then when the dominion threatened Hammerfell, the empire left them up to their own luck.
I gotta see this from the POV of a skyrim citizen, if they're gonna fight, bleed and die for an empire, only for that empire to turn their backs to them, and bend their knee to the enemy when the crap hits the fan, they have better shots of survival by being alone, or in allegiance with other non-empire kingdoms.
As an old spanish saying goes "Mejor solo que mal acompañado" (Better alone than with bad company).
End of the day: While the rebels have their flaws and they are many, I simply see much more reasons to secede from the empire than to remain on it. A shame too, because the empire has been a force of good for over 4 games, founded by heroes, and ruled with a fair hand for thousands of years. But on the last 200 years a lot of stuff has happened, and the empire is now complacent, selfish with their provinces, and weak. Skyrim stands a higher survival chance by separating from the empire and forming a league or alliance with Hammerfell, Orsinum and High-rock which have all also left the empire.
Post by
Neffy
I can't decide whether I should side with the imperials or the stormcloaks, on one hand the stormcloaks would make skyrim independent and ther cause seems reasonable but it just seems like Ulfric is in it in order to gain the crown.
The empire can act as a stabilizing force but they are basically the Thalmore's puppets at this point and also did the whole banning of Talos worship thing.
I'm leaning a bit towards the Stormcloaks since removing the imperials from skyrim should in theory also reduce the Thalmore's power and influence within skyrim but by doing so you'd be giving a power hungry man the strongest position of power in skyrim who would do who knows what once he attains said power.
The thalmore have some influence because of the whole peace treaty thing, yet if the stormcloak rebellion succeeds the empire is weakened which would also seem to be beneficial to the Thalmore
It really seems to boils down to evil you know vs. the evil you don't
Any suggestions?
As you progress through either route, you will notice that the Empire are actually the good guys, and want to unite Skyrim to fight back the Thalmor. Really, Tullius is a good guy. Also the act that bans the Talos Worship isn't an Empire Act, it was enforced by the Thalmor.
Ulfric and his cause are quite, um, stupid, I guess. His actions to make an independent nation will only cripple their forces and will let the Thalmor walk all over them.
Post by
Rankkor
As you progress through either route, you will notice that the Empire are actually the good guys, and want to unite Skyrim to fight back the Thalmor. Really, Tullius is a good guy.
Ulfric and his cause are quite, um, stupid, I guess. His actions to make an independent nation will only cripple their forces and will let the Thalmor walk all over them.
humm? did you read any of my post? the empire is FAR from the good guys. Granted the stormcloaks aren't squeaky clean either the have their own sh1t too, but overall, in this gray vs gray conflict, when its time to choose what's best for skyrim, the rebels are what skyrim needs more.
Some of the less-than-stellar moments of the empire: They demand each nation to give soldiers to them so they can fight the Thalmor during the war, and retake the imperial city from Thalmor hands, but hey, hammerfell gets attacked, asks for the same aid that the empire demanded, and the empire tells them to take a hike......... they are too busy sucking Thalmor genitals to care.
that's hardly what the good guys would do.
Then we get to the imperial soldiers stationed in skyrim, from that b1tch captain that was willing to execute me for no goddamn reason, to the captain of the personal guard of the emperor who is willing to backstab and betray anyone who gets on his way.
Post by
Jubilee
This sounds like a Republican vs Democrat debate....
Bethesda is just that awesome that they can make a game with factions that really truly appeal to different people. The beauty of it is that you and only you get to decide who the good guys are. In Rankkorr's world The Stormcloaks are the good guys, in Neffy's world it's the Empire. Both of you are right, and that's the point.
Post by
gnomerdon
u get a beautiful house if you pick stormcloaks, it's 2 stories, 6 rooms. it even has an alchemy lab, armory, enchanting room, kitchen and a very spacious living room.
if u were a nord, of course you wouldn't trust a elf in ur city. they stole viola's ring! them elves are nothin but BACKSTABBIN T HIEVES YA HEAR!
Post by
Rankkor
This sounds like a Republican vs Democrat debate....
Bethesda is just that awesome that they can make a game with factions that really truly appeal to different people. The beauty of it is that you and
only you get to decide who the good guys are
.
that's the thing, as far as I'm concerned, neither side is particulary good, and if there was a third side to this I'd support that side. However, since there's only 2 sides, I say the stormcloaks are the lesser evil.
Despite all the crap they have on their ranks (Including the racism, nationalism, and the arrogant leader) they dont bend their knee to Tyranny like the empire did. I lost most (if not all) of my simpaty for the empire when I read that they demanded troops from each province to take back the imperial city, but when the other provinces got hit, they decided to bow to the Dominion and become their yesman.
They allowed the Dominion free reign to hunt down to the last man the Blades, who have been the protectors of the Dragonborn lineage for thousands of years, they allowed the Thalmor to ban worship on the main god humanity has ever had (imagine someone comming to your house and telling you to stop worshiping your god or else they kill you) and turned a blind eye when their allies asked for the same help they demanded.
That kinda nuked any and all simpaty I may have had for them, even if the imperials have some decent people on their ranks like Hadvar and Tullius. (Personally, I like tullius way more than Ulfric, Ulfric is a jerk)
Edit: In Rankkorr's world The Stormcloaks are the good guys
Ohh believe me, I dont consider them the good guys, I really didn't liked how they sacked Whiterun, and I felt bad having to do that, but between 2 evils, the rebels are the lesser evil, and are what skyrim needs in order to both survive and keep their identity in the process.
Winning a war, while losing your culture, and national heritage isn't a real victory, which is what the empire is doing by allowing the dominion to whip them around.
Post by
Jubilee
Rankkorr, you don't need to keep defending your choice. What you chose it fine. It's okay. Really. Really really.
Post by
Neffy
humm? did you read any of my post? the empire is FAR from the good guys. Granted the stormcloaks aren't squeaky clean either the have their own sh1t too, but overall, in this gray vs gray conflict, when its time to choose what's best for skyrim, the rebels are what skyrim needs more.
I don't see how a single, weak fighting nord nation could destroy an overpowering elven nation that have beaten the Empire back many times. It just doesn't make any sense to fight against each other when you could group up and try your best against a common enemy. Maybe the Stormcloaks think that the Empire are Thalmor puppets, but if only they could see their real side.
Some of the less-than-stellar moments of the empire: They demand each nation to give soldiers to them so they can fight the Thalmor during the war, and retake the imperial city from Thalmor hands, but hey, hammerfell gets attacked, asks for the same aid that the empire demanded, and the empire tells them to take a hike......... they are too busy sucking Thalmor genitals to care.
iirc, the Redguards are actually doing just fine holding off the Thalmor in Hammerfell, I agree though, kind of a $%^&ish move to pull.
that's hardly what the good guys would do.
I don't think treating anyone who isn't a Nord that comes into your city like dirt is what good guys would do either.
Keep missing your posts...
Then we get to the imperial soldiers stationed in skyrim, from that b1tch captain that was willing to execute me for no goddamn reason, to the captain of the personal guard of the emperor who is willing to backstab and betray anyone who gets on his way.
If you follow Hadvar, he sympathizes for you and says that you shouldn't have been executed. That captain was a true &*!@# anyway; orders executions and doesn't care about the dragon that's flying over her head.
edit: god dammit I need to finish my essay...
Post by
Rankkor
Rankkorr, you don't need to keep defending your choice. What you chose it fine. It's okay. Really. Really really.
just wanted to clarify that I dont consider the stormcloaks as "the good guys"; Them sacking whiterun was definitly a low point in their campaign and I really felt like crap for having to help them do that. (Considering how nice the Jarl of Whiterun was to me)
so, if the stormcloaks aren't the good guys, who is? none really, not even the blades are squeaky, as they also forced me to do something I REALLY didn't liked.
Forced me to kill Phaartunax for crimes that he commited thousands of years ago and for what he already attoned by helping save mankind before.
The only real good faction in the entire game is A: the companions, who seek to aid the people.
Because the College is neutral to the whole thing, as are the greybeards. (The greybeards are good, but neutral to all politics, which begs the question of how Ulfric learned how to use the Thu'um)
and the dark brotherhood and thieves guild (While awesome in their own right) are far from good.
Post by
Rankkor
humm? did you read any of my post? the empire is FAR from the good guys. Granted the stormcloaks aren't squeaky clean either the have their own sh1t too, but overall, in this gray vs gray conflict, when its time to choose what's best for skyrim, the rebels are what skyrim needs more.
I don't see how a single, weak fighting nord nation could destroy an overpowering elven nation that have beaten the Empire back many times. It just doesn't make any sense to fight against each other when you could group up and try your best against a common enemy. Maybe the Stormcloaks think that the Empire are Thalmor puppets, but if only they could see their real side.
I agree that skyrim alone can't defeat the Thalmor, I just think they dont have to be a part of a crumbling corrupt empire to do so, they can easily forge an alliance with other kingdoms that left the empire like Hammerfell and High-rock.
Some of the less-than-stellar moments of the empire: They demand each nation to give soldiers to them so they can fight the Thalmor during the war, and retake the imperial city from Thalmor hands, but hey, hammerfell gets attacked, asks for the same aid that the empire demanded, and the empire tells them to take a hike......... they are too busy sucking Thalmor genitals to care.
iirc, the Redguards are actually doing just fine holding off the Thalmor in Hammerfell, I agree though, kind of a $%^&ish move to pull.
The redguards did fine holding off the thalmor, but that's not the point, the point is that they were a part of an empire that was supossed to be of mutual benefit, as in , they help the empire when they need it, and the empire helps THEM when they need it. Quid-pro-quo, that's how allies treat each other, Not asking troops and then when its their turn to give some aid telling your allies to take a hike.
Also bear in mind that if the Redguards could repell the Dominion, WITHOUT the empire, so can the nords, now imagine nords plus redguards.
let that sink in.
that's hardly what the good guys would do.
I don't think treating anyone who isn't a Nord that comes into your city like dirt is what good guys would do either.
which is why I've stated multiple times that I dont consider the Stormcloaks to be the good guys either, and if there was a third party vying for power I'd probably side with those, but since its either rebels or empire, the stormcloaks are the lesser evil.
Sure they have their own issues, but what they do is what's most beneficial to Skyrim.
Take it from me, winning a war, while losing your culture, and national heritage in the process is not a real victory. That's something that the empire kinda forgot along the way.
Post by
Pwntiff
Xenophobia has been a big issue in Tamriel for Ages. Even in Morrowind, the Nerevarine Cult assumed the Nerevarine would be a Dunmer who, besides overthrowing the Tribunal, would expel all foreigners from Morrowind.
Post by
Neffy
I've argued this point to death over the last couple days on other sites, it's always a split decision though. Strange.
Also bear in mind that if the Redguards could repell the Dominion, WITHOUT the empire, so can the nords, now imagine nords plus redguards.
let that sink in.
Reminds me of
the 13th Warrior.
Post by
Rankkor
u get a beautiful house if you pick stormcloaks, it's 2 stories, 6 rooms. it even has an alchemy lab, armory, enchanting room, kitchen and a very spacious living room.
You get the same house if you side with the empire, campaign speaking, the civil war quest-chain is nearly identical for both sides (excepting that on the battle of Whiterun, you gotta defend it from stormcloaks on the empire's side, or help the rebels sack the city on the stormcloak's side, and the last mission is storming Windhelm for the empire, or Solitude for the stormcloaks)
What side to pick boils down to morality. nothing more, but that house in windhelm? you get it regardless of who you support.
However, it doesn't speak well for you when you're willing to pick a side based on who pays more......
tsk tsk tsk.
if u were a nord, of course you wouldn't trust a elf in ur city. they stole viola's ring! them elves are nothin but BACKSTABBIN T HIEVES YA HEAR!
not even gonna bother answering that one -.-
Post by
Rankkor
I've argued this point to death over the last couple days on other sites, it's always a split decision though. Strange.
not so strange :P the developers took real care to make sure neither side was cleaner than the other. They made sure to bungle the stormcloaks with the excessive nationalism, and racism, and the sacking of whiterun (really I HATED that quest =( felt like crap, Lydia even stopped talking to me) and bungle the empire with their own bag of worms to make sure picking a side wasn't as easy as go light-side or dark-side on KOTOR.
It really took me a good well 2 and a half hours sitting in riverwood doing nothing before I made up my mind on who to support (Even then, because I wanted to see both sides, I later did the empire's version of the civil war on an alt :P)
Also bear in mind that if the Redguards could repell the Dominion, WITHOUT the empire, so can the nords, now imagine nords plus redguards.
let that sink in.
Reminds me of
the 13th Warrior.
haven't seen that movie
Post by
MyTie
My new Orc heavy armor, two hand weapon user....
Two Handed Mace
Two Handed Axe
or
Two Handed Sword
What should I specialize in?
Post by
gnomerdon
none. get the ones that helps 2handed in gernal. those are soo item specific that it's a waste talent.
once u get themain 2handed, go into restoration, so that ur heals will restore your stamina. it's a good mix with ur "charge strike crit" since ur going that route.
Post by
Thror
My new Orc heavy armor, two hand weapon user....
Two Handed Mace
Two Handed Axe
or
Two Handed Sword
What should I specialize in?
Before picking one of these, I would probably have a look at artifacts that you can get and choose according to that. I do not like the bleeding specialization though, I think it's axes? And the armor penetration on hammers looks NEAT (it is just a straight up damage increase with no RNG) but I do not know if there are any worthwhile artifact hammers. Or maybe you could just roll with Daedric warhammer.
And here is a philosophical question:
What would happen if Jubilee were to use Fus-Ro-Dah in her room?
Post by
530888
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
gnomerdon
rankoor, u seriously killed the dragon?
if you did, i feel sorry for u! the blades are cowards, and
esbern is pc bugged
Post by
Gone
Ok I finaly came down after a strait 2 week Skyrim haze and took a little break. I spent some time with my GF, caught up on my reading, and watched all the shows I had recorded on my DVR, went out with some of my buddies.
God real life is boring... BACK TO SKYRIM
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