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PTR
10.2.7
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10.2.6
Beta
New Unbreakable Armor change (3.2.2)
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Post by
Orranis
It's a small nerf to tanks and DPS alike. While you can use it more often as a tank, you no longer can get the minor mitigation on spell damage, it will only apply to physical. The str bonus also translates to less avoidance while it's active.
The plus side is you'll have it up regularly, so incoming physical damage will be more streamlined.
edit - if the bonus armor will be counted in with bladed armor, it may actually work out about the same for dpsers, and might actually be nice for tank threat too.
I don't agree with this, while it's a nerf to dps, for tanks it's a huge buff. True, you can't migitate spell damage, but you have a cooldown that can pretty much completely reduce all spell damage that is actually on a 45 second cooldown (Not much uptime, but enough to make the novae do no damage to you.
Yes.
Yes, but more for tanks because frost DPS doesn't use bladed armor anymore.
Post by
Aris
NERF!
Its a buff to main tanks who typically take slower harder hitting attacks from a single target.
Its a nerf to off tanks who tank multiple adds during boss fights that hit quickly for low amount of damage per hit. In this scenario with the current UA, you effectively take zero damage for 20 seconds. When it changes to 25% armor increase, your going to end up taking more damage.
Also it does nothing for spell damage anymore. So its useless for things like temper tantrum in the XT fight, and plasma blast on mimiron.
I don't like it. Id rather it stay the way it is even if that means i can only use it once every 2min.
Post by
Engra
Huge nerf to frost pvp, like we didnt get nerfed already enuf.
We are atm like warriors without -50% healing,execute and about same dmg or less
roll unholy anyways?
Post by
288980
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Post by
Aris
edit - if the bonus armor will be counted in with bladed armor, it may actually work out about the same for dpsers, and might actually be nice for tank threat too.
I agree with the rest. I'd agree with this part too if it wasn't that no frost build takes bladed armor anymore. :/
This isnt true, well atleast my frost build for tanking has Blade4d armor in it
He meant Frost DPS spec's dont have bladed armor, because Frost DPS is now dual wield and goes at least 16 into unholy for necrosis and BCB
Post by
Bonurmum
and subversion, don't forget subversion )':
Post by
Aadramelekh
It's a small nerf to tanks and DPS alike. While you can use it more often as a tank, you no longer can get the minor mitigation on spell damage, it will only apply to physical.
Unbreakable Armor has NEVER provided magic damage reduction, only physical. This argument is moot.
Its a nerf to off tanks who tank multiple adds during boss fights that hit quickly for low amount of damage per hit. In this scenario with the current UA, you effectively take zero damage for 20 seconds. When it changes to 25% armor increase, your going to end up taking more damage.
This is the nasty thing. However I don't think it's something to cry about, since Frost Presence will be buffed to 8% DR instead of 5%, and this will ease the pain a bit. Frost Presence + Improved Frost Presence + Blade Barrier = 15% reduction in incoming damage.
And remember the new Glyph of Unbreakable Armor: Now increases the armor gained from Unbreakable Armor by 20%. Depending on how it works (since the wording leaves room for interpretation), it could mean UA grants +55% armor
or
that the 25% bonus added is increased by 20%, making the final bonus more like 30% bonus armor instead of 25%.
In the first case, considering a generic
ilvl 232 geared DK Tank
, he has 13778 (armor from cloth/leather/mail/plate) * 1.6 * 1.1 + 1050 (armor from rings) * 1.1 = 24249 + 1155 = ~25700 armor in Frost Presence (armor from a bit of agility included at the end). With raid buffs he can go up to ~29000 armor. Under these circumstances, UA grants an additional 7250 armor => 36250 armor. Now the glyphed UA could grant either 55% bonus (~15950) for a total of 44950 armor (pretty OP I think) or 30% bonus (8700) for a total of 37700. This sounds more reasonable but at the same time it makes the glyph a bit lackluster.
If the glyph effect means that UA will grant a 55% armor bonus, then this would be heaven for Main Tanks. ~45000 armor for 20 seconds will bring the Death Knight back in business in terms of damage mitigation. Actually it might make the Death Knight the best damage absorber once again.
We shall live and we shall see...
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Post by
Aadramelekh
Not quite. It's a 14.5% reduction in damage, since the damage reduction numbers apply multipla...multipli...by multiplication.Meh, sorry, my mistake, I didn't put that through my brain before actually writing it :P It is correct that Blade Barrier adds an effective 4.5 percentage points of DR to Frost Presence (by reducing incoming damage calculated
after
Frost Presence by 5%).
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450989
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Post by
Aadramelekh
most of your top end tanks are allready pushing 70% mitigation threw armour as it is anywaysORLY... I don't think so. A lvl 245 geared plate tank will probably sport ~27K armor unbuffed, maybe ~33K raid buffed. 33K armor means close to ~67% DR. Those last 3% needed for 70% actually mean an additional ~7K armor, which is not that easy to find (excluding trinket procs / abilities). So you'd better get your numbers straight before posting them here.
@
Kindran
:
With that 32.6K armor raid buffed you have about 66% damage reduction versus a raid boss. so you actually need not 7%, but 9% to reach the 75% DR cap. The new Unbreakable Armor + Glyph will place you almost at the cap (assuming exact cap of 75% for simplicity).
So let's take a boss from ToC25 heroic. This one does hit like a truck, even on lvl 232+ geared tanks. For instance Dreadscale hits you for about ~17000 (adequately geared tank). This means his base damage is probably around ~53000 (give or take). When Acidmaw dies, Dreadscale gains +50% physical damage (up to ~80000 base damage, or ~27000 on you). This enrage effectively makes Dreadscale capable of killing you in two shots (I doubt you can reach 55000 HP raid buffed without gimping your avoidance, and this is why you have cooldowns).
When using Unbreakable Armor (+Glyph) you go from 66% to 75% DR against the boss. Before the enrage, this means you take only ~13500 damage per hit (so 3500 reduced damage, much more than the measly ~1500 provided by the previous version of UA). When he enrages, you'll take ~20000 damage per hit with UA (so a reduction of ~7000 damage per hit!), allowing you to easily survive two hits back to back (since you most likely have more than 41000HP raid buffed if you are facing this boss).
Indeed the old UA was mitigating also magic damage but still, ~1500 wasn't making or breaking your survival against such attacks, since most magic damage comes in one single huge hit (or several big hits, see Meteor Fists on Koralon) and for heavy magic damage mitigation you use Anti Magic Shell for a much greater effect. I know, there are some boss magic abilities that deal damage over time (like auras that hurt you for 2-3K damage per 2-3 seconds), but those don't represent a real danger for you as tank, since it is a steady, predictable stream of small incoming damage. The spike heavy melee (during enrages or streaks of bad luck not avoiding hits) or magic attacks are the real tank killers. For magic damage you have the Shell, for physical damage you have the new Unbreakable Armor.
This change makes Frost Main Tanks much harder to kill. And imo it is a great improvement over the old one for Main Tanking.
As for the nerf it represents for Off Tanks that get to face large packs of small adds (take the new Onyxia, phase 2, when 40 whelps spawn, that melee for about ~500 on plate tanks), it is indeed a crappy thing. Those 500 damage per hit whelps would have represented no threat at all for a DK popping UA and effectively blocking ALL damage for 20 seconds. But now they do represent a threat. And frankly that's the point. However the solution is simple: use a DK to Main Tank Onyxia and a shield wielding class (Warrior / Paladin) for Off Tanking the whelps. And so on and so forth.
My opinion is that this change is good in the end.
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