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Marrowstrike or Edge of Ruin?
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Post by
138535
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Post by
388951
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Post by
25556
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Post by
JemiS
Am I missing something here? Since when has Agility become more important than Strength for a Ret pally?
It's not. My theorycraft and searchfu are failing me right now, but off the top of my head, you need 2.1 Agi to compensate for losing 1 Str. The fact that Marrowstrike has AP instead of Str really hurts (1 Str is worth nearly 3 AP, once you factor in Block Value), and that socket doesn't compensate as much as people tend to think.
Why are we factoring in block value in discussions of a 2Handed weapon?
When you compare the socketed Marrowstrike to Edge of Ruin, it's a straight up comparison of ~80 AP to 2% crit.
They are effectively equivalent, but if you are low on Crit Marrowstrike takes the edge.
Post by
hatman555
I posted a similar write up with this math on a
post
while back, but i really liked blademeld's code box idea. So I'm posting his instead.
Cheers,
Hat
****EDIT*****
I removed the quote. Apparently using a code box with a quote box messes things up alot. But check out the link and scroll down to see both mine and blademeld's posts.
Post by
blademeld
What is that?
Post by
GenXCub
Ran into a
ret pally
last night who was so proud of his newly aquired
Marrowstrike
... of course, being the person that I am, I felt the need to deflate him a little. So I asked him: "why on earth are you using that over
Edge of Ruin
" to which he promptly responded: "what are you dumb? this is WAYYY better!" I argued with him a little more but stopped when he told me that one of his buddies in one of the top guilds on our server told him it was better...
Am I missing something here? Since when has Agility become more important than Strength for a Ret pally?
Yes you were right in your assumption that the Edge is better.
However, no one can be told they're wrong unless they're asking your opinion. If someone isn't soliciting your opinion, it will save you a lot of drama to not bother.
Post by
330468
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Post by
MischievousLoki
Mm strange that qestion seems to come up a lot i resently advised some one on my realm to take Ege of ruin over Marrowstrike took a bit of time to convince him the reasons why to do so.
Explain your reasoning, because as far as I can tell it depends on how much crit and AP you have already.
Post by
Quest
Marrowstrike > EoR
for a ret paladin. Slightly. Period.
Its not worth grinding to get if you get EoR. Take what you get and move on.
Post by
211590
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Post by
Quest
I've already proven it by the ret stat weightings in the
Stat Weighting Presets: Post the latest updates here
sticky.
Relevent Stat Weights for Retribution as follows:
Strength: 100
Expertise: 83 (till cap)
Crit: 50
AP: 42
Agi: 40
Haste: 38
ArmPen: 27
SP: 11
I'll humor you courtesy of Blademeld.
Edge of Ruin
+121 Strength (121 * 1.15 * 1.1 * 2 = 306 AP)
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 62 (1.35% @ L80).
Equip: Increases your armor penetration rating by 76 (6.17% @ L80).
Marrowstrike
+106 Agility (106 * 1.1 / 52.08 = 2.24% crit)
Yellow Socket (20 * 1.15 * 1.1 * 2 = 51 AP)
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 57 (1.24% @ L80).
Equip: Increases attack power by 154.
Equip: Increases your armor penetration rating by 60 (4.87% @ L80).
Net difference
Edge of Ruin
Marrowstrike
306 AP 205 AP
1.35% crit 3.48% crit
6.17% ArP 4.87% ArP
101ap & 16ApR vs 2.13% crit.
Rating | Score
-------+------
101ap | 4242
16ApR | 432
-------+------
TOTAL |
4674
2.13% crit = 110 crit rating =
5500
TL;DR
Marrowstrike is slightly better than EoR overall, and much better than EoR in PvP.
Edit: This is even more very slightly in the favor of MS due to ApR nerf that I dont think is reflected here.
Post by
25556
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160231
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Post by
TheJohan
Sane people? Where? You stall em' ahwile ai gettn' mah boomstick!
Post by
138535
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Post by
valundar
LOL, I had not idea they would end up being so close and it's funny to see the differing opinions as to which is better... I guess the bottom line is that, as mentioned above, it doesn't matter which one you use, just use the one that drops for you first and move on.
It is, like previously mentioned, Just a difference in if you need AP or crit more.
In my case i am grinding out marrowstrike... (damn you ya filthy....grrr) because i want a polearm...
And because I can.
Well... not really ive ran this a bagillion times and have only seen it once... and im not about to take this from the needing(honestly) hunter just so i can have a polearm.... (sad, because at the time i didnt have EoR yet either....)
One day....
Post by
Quest
Rating | Score
-------+------
101ap | 4242
16ApR | 432
-------+------
TOTAL | 4674
2.13% crit = 110 crit rating = 5500
But if you do the math directly (I divide the weights by 100 to keep the numbers manageable):
Marrowstrike
DPS 212.3 * 5.88 = 1248.324
Agi 106 * .4 = 42.4
Yellow Socket: +20 Str gem
20 * 1 = 20
Crit 57 * .5 = 28.5
AP 154 * .42 = 64.68
ArPen 60 * .27 = 16.2
Total = 1420.104
Edge of Ruin
DPS 212.3 * 5.88 = 1248.324
Str 121 * 1 = 121
Crit 62 * .5 = 31
ArPen 76 * .27 = 20.52
Total = 1420.844
Edge of Ruin is better for a Ret paladin, if only by .052% or .43% if you disregard their identical DPS and weapon speed.
Sure, this would be correct if you run around with zero buffs on yourself and skipping divine strength. I dont see how thats realistic. Infact, it is unrealistic. So unrealistic infact that its wrong! :P
The very weightings you just used are based on using divine strength and Kings(for a raid setting). So you cant use them like that, if you want accurate numbers.
Or you could just say its close enough that it really doesn't matter.
I agree and
I've already said this in my first reply to this thread.
:D
Post by
Quest
It is, like previously mentioned, Just a difference in if you need AP or crit more.
I dont agree with this. Its not a case of needed more ap or crit. Its a case of being dps, and needed more dps, thus the weighting system.
Post by
valundar
It is, like previously mentioned, Just a difference in if you need AP or crit more.
I dont agree with this. Its not a case of needed more ap or crit. Its a case of being dps, and needed more dps, thus the weighting system.
dont agree all ya want.
Still rings true.
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