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Guild leader issue
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Post by
frenchy
ok , so i dont play a DK and i would hate to put my guys name out there under the buss. but i have a DK in my raid as a reg member, mainly cause the player has been with us for a long time and i would feel bad kicking one of our oldest members. he is naxx 25 geared , i would say fairly good at playing his class, but he only does about 2.8k dps in a 10 man situation. the other members are a prot pally and warr, a rogue, arms warr, mage, two holy priests, a resto druid, and a MM hunter.
this is the issue at hand, he is frost spec'd and says that it is the " dps " spec right now. is he correct? or should he be spec'd into blood or unholy? and what would be the key talents that he should have or not have for a dps spec? so that when i inspect him when i confront him, i need to know what i am talking about. the other members of my raids hit a constant 4k dps, or better, and they are tired of him not keeping up, so please help me help him. ty guys in advance for the help
Post by
Poisonblood
Depends on what points he has in Frost. All three specs are viable DPS/Tanking specs its just a matter of where he places his talent points. He may just need to research the rotations as this is what kills most DK's numbers.
Post by
334662
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Post by
375787
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Post by
anywherenotes
if everyone's doing 4k and he's doing 2.8, yes he should improve.
However, as frost he's bringing in same buff as a windfury totem, so if you tell him to sit out, your warrior and rogue will be lower on dps. Still the buff isn't probably worth the dps loss, assuming he could get to 4k as well.
But yes, all trees can tank and dps, that doesn't mean you can tank and dps in same spec, at least not well. So look at the website someone provided, or post armory link to your dk, and I'm sure people will dissect it and make fun ... so it won't be helpful at all.
I think 'blood' is the more traditional dps tree, but I did see a dk spec into each of the trees (every other raid he'd come in a different tree), and he hit same dps within few hundred each time, so I believe they are equivalent, it's just how well you know and can execute the rotation.
Post by
frenchy
http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=23050205000000000000000000003200505035200311230005101351030000000000000000000000000000
ok, this is the talent build that he is running with, i appreciate all the help i can get, like i said i dont know anything about DK's having nvr played one. he has cryptfiends bite as his weap, with 85 AP on it, think he is waiting on a better weap to chant it with massacre, i am trying to keep his name out of the thread to keep peace in the guild. so i cant link his armory sry. the rest of his gear is from naxx 25 man man, with the exception of one trinket, and the is the wieghtstone from H UP. so with that spec, if it is correct, what should his rotation be? what are the key stats that he should have, i do know that his AP in raid sits around 3600 , is that around where it should be? i dont know what his crit is, or arm pen is, all the advice i can get is helpful ty in advance for your time.
Post by
375787
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Post by
146856
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Post by
anywherenotes
http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=6&tal=23050205000000000000000000003200505035200311230005101351030000000000000000000000000000
ok, this is the talent build that he is running with, i appreciate all the help i can get, like i said i dont know anything about DK's having nvr played one. he has cryptfiends bite as his weap, with 85 AP on it, think he is waiting on a better weap to chant it with massacre, i am trying to keep his name out of the thread to keep peace in the guild. so i cant link his armory sry. the rest of his gear is from naxx 25 man man, with the exception of one trinket, and the is the wieghtstone from H UP. so with that spec, if it is correct, what should his rotation be? what are the key stats that he should have, i do know that his AP in raid sits around 3600 , is that around where it should be? i dont know what his crit is, or arm pen is, all the advice i can get is helpful ty in advance for your time.
Ok, if he's enchanting his weapon instead of runeforging it (available to all dk's), than he's no good.
I could be wrong, I'm a tank, but I've never heard of DK's enchanting their weapons.
Post by
Eleazer
1200 is a decent dps rate. I am lvl 72 as well just got to 73 and am pushing 1500 dps in just about every heroic including Violet Hold. As a frost dps it's pretty basic, simply keep your rotation going, stay in contact with the target and stay behind them. The hardest thing for ex-tanks new dps to remember is to fight behind a target at all times. He might be having trouble rotating between targets, and remember his buffs are helping team dps. Check to see that his cooldowns and trinkets are macro'd into his Obliterate, IT or HB keys so that he is constantly using them, as well as keeping HOW up. I have found those seem to be the difference of about 200 - 400 dps per attack. Finally he should be at 9 percent hit and expertise capped or he is wasting swings. Take a look at lynri's comments and read up on the Frost 2h 3.1 article he wrote.
10 man's are a little odd in that it's all about the makeup. Remind your other dps that his buffs are benefiting them at least if he has imp Icy Talons and is keeping HoW up. As for enchanting I don't believe we can enchant and rune forge andthe Getting the Fallen Crusader runeforge is the way to go. I sharpen mine too just for added dps and threat.
Post by
375787
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Post by
Aris
From what i've seen, DPS is all about the rotation.
Take me for example. I'm blood dps (off/dual spec), with maybe 5 naxx epics and everything else is pre raiding epics from heroics, reputation purchases, or craftable items. And i've hit 4k dps in a 5man heroic. I'm always over 3k dps. Anything less than 3k dps is someone just not giving a damn and not trying very hard, especially if their full naxx geared.
With full naxx gear, he should ALWAYS be over 4k dps, no exceptions.
Hell i do around 2.2k dps on a single target when TANKING in naxx.
Post by
375787
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Post by
Eleazer
No offense Eleazer, but how are you running heroics at 72-73. If you aren't raiding 10 or 25 man Ulduar as a DK there is nothing for you to post about. We can repeat the same things but right now there are some big issues out there.
1. Weapon needs to be runeforged with "Rune of the Fallen Crusader". No need to talk about the procs or reasons why, it's still the best.
2. Frost dps is going to be lackluster without the right gear, without an armory the critique is limited.
3. Anything blue at this point in the game is unacceptable, I saw you said he still has Meteorite trinket. Mirror of Truth is a great vendor trinket and some Naxx25 runs could get another trinket like Loatheb's Shadow or a 25 OS can get you Fury of the Five Flights which is still awesome. Darkmoon card: Greatness +90 Strength is what i'm using and it works great.
Sounds like he needs some coaching, if nobody's available find someone else to fill the slot.
Sorry didn't mean heroic, Meant dungeons or instances just said it wrong, and just because someone doesn't raid does not mean they don't understand the mechanics of their class. Some of the best players I have ran into don't raid much because they don't have the time or the inclination to raid more than randomly.. To simply qualify yourself as smarter because you raid in 25 man instances and I don't is a little short sighted. I have known way too many raiding players who couldn't tell you a single thing about their class. Appreciate the insult and your desire to help someone out, but even I could see that he simply needed coaching.
Post by
304214
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Post by
Aris
you need to have your hit capped @ %9 and your expertise @ %6
Hit soft cap is 8% so that yellow attacks no longer "miss"
Expertise soft cap is 6.5% so that attacks no longer are "dodged"
@Foshizzle
What our guild did was have 2 groups of 25man. One is for progression and one is for casual raiding. Group 1 does only 25man ulduar, and group 2 does everything pre ulduar. Its worked out pretty well so far.
Ultimately your guild needs to decide if your going to be a casual or a hard core raiding guild. Casual being you raid naxx, and when your done with naxx and you have time left over you try some ulduar. Hard core being you leave naxx in the past and you push nothing but 25man ulduar regardless of how much you wipe.
Post by
304214
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Post by
375787
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Post by
Aris
@ Lianli
No their not dependent on what race you are. 8% is the soft cap for yellow melee attacks. It doesn't matter how you get there, be it 7% from stats and 1% from being draenei or 8% from stats if your a different race, you still need 8%.
I'm sure you have seen great results from 6% expertise, but that doesn't change the fact that the expertise soft cap is 6.5%.
Post by
375787
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