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Dual Wield Tanking & 3.3 patch...

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Post by 2Fang

Is DW tanking going to be actually viable in 3.3?

From 3.3 Patch notes:
Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle: There is now a 1-handed version of this rune in addition to the current 2-handed rune.

Rune Strike: Threat generated by this ability increased by approximately 17%.

Those 2 are the big changes I see... Allowing Stoneskin Gargoyle to be put to 1handers and Rune Strike increasing threat seems like Blizzard wants Death Knights or allows Death Knights to tank while dual-wielding (Frost spec mainly).

What are your thoughts? Viable?

Post by Thror

So far it seems like DW tanking is gonna be on par with Threat generation with all the other raiding specs. However...

When considering EH, DW tanking is subpar to two-hander builds by miles. Not only does the DW Frost have 3% less stamina than 2H Blood, but the weapon DW Frost has to use have CRAP stamina, compared to good tanking 2H weapons.

Frost needs 2.6 speed weapons to make its threat gen comparable to 2H Blood.

Frost needs those weapons to have high stamina (80+ minimum, 100+ would be ideal) to match the EH boost of average tanking 2H weapons. The only one handers that would be suitable for DW tanking are the relentless PvP weapons. (not even the icecrown weapons that are revealed so far) The others just dont cut it.

So... you need two very special weapons to be on par with 2h Blood threat-wise and stamina-wise. Even then, you are still gonna have 3% stamina less, so no matter how hard you try, an equally geared Blood tank is gonna out-HP you.

That doesnt mean DW Frost is not gonna be viable, it will be totally okay... but not the best choice for hard mode progression.

Also, my statements are just logical assumptions based on my general knowledge of the DK class and personal experience with Blood and Frost tanking. That means i did not really do any real math. Some theorycrafter might prove my statements wrong, id be glad actually, cause i also like the idea of a DW tank (for hard mode progression, not just goofy heroix and EZ raids). But until that happens i still think DW Frost is gonna be subpar.

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Post by Dracovius

This change was quite obviously made so that fresh 80 dk's can spec frost and faceroll heroics until they're in T9 or better. In case you haven't noticed, Blizzard is trying to make it easier to get into raids, even if you don't have a good guild. The effect that fresh 80's getting into Icecrown raids will have on those player's skills are... debatable.

From my experience, trying to tank heroics with <25k health teaches you most of what you need to know to be a good tank. That is assuming of course you have a good group that is tolerant of your crap gear.

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Post by Nystali

I think frost is very much heading towards DWing exclusively. DPS already and Tanking is well on its way. The threat from 2h is just not scaling very well as we get better gear relative to how DW scales. Its really the same principle as why DPS is DW exclusive: Our strikes just function so much better with ToT. We can still make do, but even I'm debating whether or not I wanna give up and go DW. I finally just got a gear set where I don't need SSG enchant so I'm giving sword shattering a try right now to see how I feel about loss in stamina (also lost a stamina trinket building this set).

Right now I'm hoping to get the 2h sword from ony with +expertise (would be nice to free up some gemming), but in that process, I might end up collecting this or maybe even the dps axe or sword even though I'd lose stamina. Might prompt me to finally experiment.

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Post by Thror

So, because I don't see it discussed...

What about the increased amounts of parries and dodges?

Assuming you are expertise capped we can rule out dodge, but with two 2.6 speed weapons vs a 3.5 you are hitting almost 3x as much... then miss a bunch... so like 2x as many white hits, which means you get parried twice as often, which means the boss is hitting you more than as blood.

If that's not correct, that's my bad. That was my understanding of why DW was so ineffective.
When the boss parries you, he (sometimes) swings faster. When a boss swings, you can Dodge/Parry the attack. When you Dodge/Parry an attack, you can rune strike. So... with positive RNG, high weapon speed might possible grant you an aggro boost. With negative RNG, it might kill you :P

Also... not all bosses have parry haste enabled. And i dont think parry haste is really such a huge issue... It's mostly special abilities that kill the tank, not melee swings.

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Post by kurotsuki007

Personally I have DW tanked 10/25TOC and found my threat gen on par with a geared 2h tank, Of course you get your usual bunch of snickers when you want to raid with only ~31k HP until your still standing when the 45kHP stam stacking pally/warrior die in two hits. In respec to 2h blood tanks, i feel squishy even thou my stats are about the same. just my personal opinion though.

With the intro of the new rune next patch I see DW tanking shining even more, though it is the patch of the pally and warrior tanks.

some advice to anyone that thinks about DW tanking, before you attempt it, you must have at least 30 expertise or else you will get parry hasted. don't worry about the hit cap, it's so stupidly high that you will never reach it in tank gear, not that it matters.

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