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Confused Prot Pally (is my spec that bad?)
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Post by
Chocodave
Firstly, a HUGE thank you to all your advice :) I seriously appreciate it. And I'm sorry if I upset you blademeld... I'll try not to make you scream any more, honest!
I hadn't realized how much of a buff Divine Plea had actually been given... Points have now been removed from Benediction (This is the only thing EVERYONE seemed to agree on :P ) and I'm also now running with 1/2 Spiritual Attunement... Yet still no worries about ever running out of mana. God bless BoSanc and Perma-Divine Plea!
I certainly won't lose Judgement of the Just... being told that I should drop that scares me...
I'm also glad that on the whole, everyone agrees that reckoning is a bad idea. I knew I wasn't going insane, but as I'd got points wedged into Benediction, who knows what was going on in my head?
As for whether I keep PoJ or not... I'm working on it...
And the left over points? Tbh, I'm still torn between putting points into Divinity for the Sacred Shield buff and increased survivability, or hitting up the Ret tree (or even tier1 holy tree) for increased dps/tps.
Again, thank you for not ripping me to shreds yet! Now to reset my glyphs as well.. eep!
Post by
98700
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
svirve
Firstly, a HUGE thank you to all your advice :) I seriously appreciate it. And I'm sorry if I upset you blademeld... I'll try not to make you scream any more, honest!
Im pretty sure all the mind numbingly bad prot specs made him scream not you :)
Souloni: Threat is a big issue as a tank. You'll know this when you have 3 people riding your ass on the threat meter just waiting for your TPS to up so they can do more DPS.
Post by
blademeld
Im pretty sure all the mind numbingly bad prot specs made him scream not you :)
This is true, allow me to give you 2 recent examples:
This
is what I go with personally. 5/5 conviction ends up being TONS of threat
Less than either Crusade or Sanctity of Battle, people taking Conviction over Sanctity of Battle makes me want to stop coming to these forums, I'm looking at you Quest (remember that blunder?)
4 Talents Left Over:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAruMusIufdxso0b:pGZmcz
Improved Hammer of Justice, explain.
Post by
98700
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Overhaul
Ik your not asking me, but I take Improved Hammer of Justice because I am on a PvP server and often do dailies with my tanking spec. I am also a screen clicker so I don't take Divine Guardian... this imagine how crazy that would be for me to be constantly clicking on it >.<
Edit: next time I recommend a talent tree, I should probably make those choices more clear.
Post by
Bruenor80
Im pretty sure all the mind numbingly bad prot specs made him scream not you :)
This is true, allow me to give you 2 recent examples:
This
is what I go with personally. 5/5 conviction ends up being TONS of threat
Less than either Crusade or Sanctity of Battle, people taking Conviction over Sanctity of Battle makes me want to stop coming to these forums, I'm looking at you Quest (remember that blunder?)
4 Talents Left Over:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAruMusIufdxso0b:pGZmcz
Improved Hammer of Justice, explain.
I don't see how 5% crit from conviction is worse than the 3% from sancity of battle. And seeing as you have to take 5 points on that tier to get either of the other two abilities...
Also, Crusade won't be nearly as good in Ulduar as it is in Naxx(3% increased damage on constructs instead of 6% on undead)
edit:typo
Post by
blademeld
Ah, easy.
I got click happy.
Hey, it's honest.
>.>
Alright, you're off the hook, especially since the person below you suggested it might be for non-tanking purposes.
I don't see how 5% crit from conviction is worse than the 3% from sancity of battle. And seeing as you have to take 5 points on that tier to get either of the other two abilities...
Also, Crusade won't be nearly as good in Ulduar as it is in Naxx(3% increased damage on constructs instead of 6% on undead)
Wrong on all three points there.
Sanctity of battle also provides 5% damage increase in Exorcism per point, that's an additional bonus to the crit.
You have 7 points in that tier with Pursuit of Justice.
3% damage done > 3% crit, even if you fail to understand that, if crit was superior you would have taken Sanctity of Battle over Crusade in that tier anyways.
Read the damned tooltips instead of going with what looks cool.
Post by
kaptsea
To the OP
The following post assumes that you use the Badge libram.
First off, to the Reckoning discussion. Reckoning (Since expertise is really undervalued to tankadins than the other tonks), is not just poor in terms of threat generation. It is baaad for making your attacks get parried more. It will lead to an immediate counter, which will most propably kill you if you get 2 in a row or sth.
Benediction is often skipped as its benefits are rarely seen. Reducing mana usage when you got that 25% mana return on ALL the time (you should at least), is minimal.
2/2 Imp judgements, is now mandatory imo. There is no better place in terms of mitigation available. Higher uptime of the Libram's buff = More block value = Less damage per hit.
Exorcism is rarely used inside the 969 rotation. You can still find a window to pop it, between the Consecration and the holy shield. You can do it, since HS is meant to hold longer that its CD. The same goes for AS. Just time your CDs.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZA0xA0uMusIufdxf0x0c:0Gpmcz
This is what i use. Since you will be judging a lot, the Glyph is good. Seal of Vengeance Glyph, will grant you some XPertise, instead of the hit cap on our Death grip.
5% crit and more damage to almost everything will make sure that no DPS will pass your threat, and the 3% of extra healing will ease up the stress on the healers (not great tho)
My 2 c here.
Above all, have fun and test those specs. They may work for you, or not :)
Edit : Didn't see the 2nd page... Almost all are mentioned :/
Post by
svirve
2/2 Imp judgements, is now mandatory imo. There is no better place in terms of mitigation available. Higher uptime of the Libram's buff = More block value = Less damage per hit.
Since you're most probably following a 969 rotation 2/2 imp judgements doesnt give you more mitigation than 1/2.
You're still only using it ever 9 seconds.
Post by
98700
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Boeck
Also, Crusade won't be nearly as good in Ulduar as it is in Naxx(3% increased damage on constructs instead of 6% on undead)
edit:typo
That may be. However all the math that was done on what talents are better threat talents only used the base 3% from Crusade. If you are fighting one of mob classes where you gain an extra 3%, that is just icing on the cake.
Post by
blademeld
You people stopped making sense.
Post by
Achloryn
Okay.
Spec is decent but I want to clear up just a few things.
1) Judgements of the Just
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=53696
Is not really that good for a PVE Prot Paladin. I really don't know what they are thinking with this talent.. I guess... PVProtadins..oh well.
Prot Paladins want to get hit. Err. Rather... Swung at. Decreasing a mobs attack speed means you're getting swung at less often. Which means less Blessing of Sanctuary mana returns and also means less blocks for Holy Shield damage.
just throwing this in, but having judgements of the just will make your raid DPS higher... How you might ask? Because 2 out of 3 accepted mage raiding specs have something called
Torment The Weak
.. increasing their damage by 12% is huge over longer fights, and in 25 man raids, there's a more than likely chance that there will be AT LEAST 2 mages. All tanks have an ability that slows down the mobs melee attack speed (warriors thunder clap, DKs icy touch, druids have infected wounds)... don't you think that getting hit less is something that every tank wants? The less melee swings they're making, the less damage you're taking.... and that's really one of the two main points of tanking isnt it? take less damage, and generate more threat.
With or without BoS mana returns and Spiritual Attunement mana returns, i've never seen a pally havce issues with mana problems since they'll probably have Divine Plea up, which gets refreshed on every melee swing, judgement, or HotR because of guarded by the light.... and if you're GLYPHED for Divine Plea, then a good tank WILL have it up at all times due to the extra damage reduction.
So.. JotJ is good for the pally tank, as well as brings a slight bit of use to the raid overall.
Post by
89503
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
svirve
Ehm.. What mana problem?
No Paladins dont have the most threat in the game. All other tanking classes has better TPS on one target.
AoE tanking Paladins are better at though.
You will know why you want more threat when you get into content where DPS is riding your ass on the threat meters.
Post by
182335
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
blademeld
I'm guessing no one reads the FAQ or Quest's guide.
Post by
zoomie
No Paladins dont have the most threat in the game. All other tanking classes has better TPS on one target.
How did you post this all the way from the year 2007?
Yes, paladins have the most single target threat in the game. I have yet to meet any tank of any class who can dish out more threat than me.
And no paladins aren't the best AOE tanks anymore. DK tank AOE threat is better than a paladins if theres more than 3 targets and one of them isn't getting hit by hammer of the righteous.
Post by
svirve
No Paladins dont have the most threat in the game. All other tanking classes has better TPS on one target.
How did you post this all the way from the year 2007?
Yes, paladins have the most single target threat in the game. I have yet to meet any tank of any class who can dish out more threat than me.
And no paladins aren't the best AOE tanks anymore. DK tank AOE threat is better than a paladins if theres more than 3 targets and one of them isn't getting hit by hammer of the righteous.
I have to ask what kind of tanks you're running with then.
The part about DKs being able to pull more AoE threat i can partially agree with. Unholy DKs sure, but i doubt it with Frost DKs.
In mostly heroic gear and a few odd pieces from the AH i was able to stay at 90-95% threat of a paladin with my frost DK.
The paladin was naxx10/25 geared, one of the more skilled once i've met. He didnt only know what he had to do but also why and how.
I've yet to see an "equally" geared warrior get beaten by a paladin on threat.
Druids im not sure about anymore tbh since they've been pretty nerfed on threat recently.
Edit: right word in the wrong order..
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