This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Combat glyphs
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Caperon
@ Caperon:
With Vitality Energy reg is like 12.5 energy per sec, and with 5 sec of AR more you get 62.5 more energy, which is like 1.5 SS.
1.5 SS >= 2 attacks
"Sinister Strike is weapon damage + 180 damage" - SS is much more than that with proper talents like aggression, surprise attacks, lethality and that one which increases damage of SS by 10% and dazes(forgot the name). Also those two KS attacks last 1s, in which you'd get 1-2 white attacks, without improved KS. Also 1.5 SS it gives 1.5 (or more cos of SS glyph) combo points, and those are very valuable...
So cos of combo points, I'd choose AR glyph over KS glyph... but thats my preference i guess...
Aah i forgot about vitality, ill do the mats again in a sec.
40 energy/2sec = 20 energy/sec so that equals 2 extra sinister strikes in 5 seconds and an snd or rupture
what? its an extra 10 energy/sec because you already gain 10 energy/sec from your normal regen and than again an other 10 energy/sec from Adrenaline Rush. (Though not mentioning vitality)
Other than misrepresenting Combat's actual energy regen, you've ignored the damage potential from the combo points generated by the longer duration on AR. It can't be ignored that these combo points have DPS value.
As for disadvantages to KS, particularly in Ulduar, you can't use it at all on Kologarn. There's many other fights, such as Razorscale, Mimiron, Freya, Thorim, or Yogg-Saron where timing of other abilities is crucial and the shorter cooldown might not be used to its full potential.
1)It's only 1 (1.5) more combo point, i may have forgotten about this but ill do the mats now.
2)Crucial timing for cds? well that makes lower cds more valuable since u gotta squeze them in every gap. If you got bosses like grobulus where you have to move away/run, well than bad timing of Adrenaline Rush can totally ruin it.
The Mats:
1)Adrenaline Rush:
5 seconds more on Adrenaline Rush gives 1.5 more Sinister Strikes.
Sinister strike is Weapon damage + 180 damage. Not calculating with the talents, it gets a +35% damage. So +180 damage, becomes +243 damage.
->Damage Increase: 1.5 weapon damage + 365.
2)Killing Spree:
2 more attacks with 20% more damage on them and lets say one (two?) extra weapon damage(white hit).
->Damage Inrease: 1 weapon damage + 2 weapon damage increased by 20%
Calculation with
Silent Crusader
:
Silent Crusader does 274-509 damage, thus its average hit is 392 ((274+509)/2).
Adrenaline Rush -> 392 x 1.5 + 365 =
953
more damage with the Adrenaline Rush Glyph
Killing Spree -> 392 + 2 x (471) =
1333
more damage with the Killing Spree Glyph
Bottemline:
Killing Spree is 400 more damage AND DPS (because its Killing Spree and 2 attacks take 1 second to do, thus increasing your DPS too. Instead of substaioning it -> you do an instany 1333 more dps in a second while Adrenaline rush substains it over 5 seconds.) But lets not forget that Adrenaline Rush does give you 1.5 more combo points or even more with the Sinister Strike Glyph.
The Question is: Is 400 less damage worth the 1.5 extra combo points? Some may take the adrenaline rush, but in my eyes Killing Spree is just the better one even if its with a close win.
Edit: I forget that these are fictional - not fully calculated numbers (Attack Power, crit, etc...).
1333 / 953 x 100 = 140%, Thus the Killing Spree Glyph does exactly 40% more damage (instead of 400 more damage, because this differs from your attack power, how harder your weapon and how higher your attack power, how higher the difference between the glyphs become making Killing Spree harder hitting.)
So the question now is:
Is 40% less damage worth the 1.5 extra combo points?
Post by
70338
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Caperon
So the question now is:
Is 40% less damage worth the 1.5 extra combo points?
40% less damage over 2.5 seconds? We're talking less than 400 damage done, over the course of a 4 minute fight, which means, what, 1200 damage if you use the KSpr 3 times when your CD is up? Given that on boss fights, KSpr is only usable in some situations (when you're not going to end up in a tail swipe or the boss is going to turn and you'll end up in the wrong spot, and the boss isn't spawning adds that you'll end up next to rather than the boss) whereas AR can be used on any boss at any time. Granted, over that same 4 minute fight you'll only use it twice, but it's not going to make you lose control of your toon. Add the SS glyph into the mix and you may end up with 3-4 extra CPs. Besides which, the talents that increase SS damage don't do anything for your KSpr attacks.
If 1200 damage is going to make the difference between a kill and a wipe, you have bigger problems. For overall utility, I think it's pretty clear that AR wins.
1)
40% increased damage is not exactly 400 damage. I did not calculate Attack Power and Crit rating thus making the real damage difference between them a lot bigger. If you take Killing Spree you will do 40% more damage than you would do when taking Adrenaline Rush. So the difference in damage will be a lot higher than just 1200...
2)
How are you going to use Adrenaline Rush twice in a 4min fight when the cooldown of Adrenaline Rush is 3min, gj!
3)
I did not mention anything anything about that talents give increased damage to Killing Spree, nor did i calculated it.
4)
Seriously can u guys stop QQing about the usage of Killing Spree on bosses with tailswipe! You are acting like 50% of all (raid) bosses have Tailswipe, but in fact that it is only Sapphiron and Sartharion. And if you are dying because of breaths, well than thats just your tank his fault.
If 1200 damage is going to make the difference between a kill and a wipe, you have bigger problems. For overall utility, I think it's pretty clear that AR wins.
Lol? How did you come to this conclusion? I'm giving the real numbers here and calculating the mats in which does more damage! Yet you jump to a conclusion, saying something doesnt make it real. Glyph of Killing Spree
is
better than the Glyph of Adrenaline Rush, deal with it.
Boss Encounters Contra Adrenaline Rush:
1)Maexxna: You may get webbed or webbed out at the moment you pop Adrenaline Rush.
2)Grobbulus: You may get injected at the moment you pop Adrenaline Rush.
3)Sapphiron: You may get a chill (blizzard) on you at the moment you pop Adrenaline Rush.
4)Kel'Thuzad: You may get ice-tombed at the moment you pop Adrenaline Rush.
5)Sartharion: The lava can churn at the moment you pop Adrenaline Rush.
6)Malygos (Phase1): You may get caught in a vortex at the moment you pop Adrenaline Rush.
7)Malygos (Phase2): You may have to switch bubbles at the moment you pop Adrenline Rush.
Should i go on or was Sartharion and Sapphiron only enough? Do your reading/learning before you "
think
" that Adrenaline Rush is better than Killing Spree just because it has a lower utility in
some
fights. Killing Spree is 40% more damage than Adrenaline Rush, the only difference is 1.5 combo points. Not worth it!
Post by
4466
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
4466
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
70338
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Liquoid
let me add:
8) Killing Spree on Kologarn = "YOU FAIL"
Post by
Caperon
Your math, again, ignores multiple aspects of the Combat spec. Sinister Strike isn't straight weapon damage. It hasn't been for quite some time. Aggresion adds 15% damage, Blade Twisting adds 10% damage, Surprise Attacks adds 10% damage, and you've got Lethality, Prey on the Weak, and the Sinister Strike Glyph to consider as well in the case of a crit.
Furthermore, you're ignoring the offhand hits of Killing Spree. It's not just the main hand. You attack with
both
weapons. These attacks, and all white attacks during KS, are increased by 20% thanks to 3.1.
I'm not really supporting one Glyph or the other. I'm just trying to give both a fair chance and proper review. As I posted earlier, I dislike Combat somewhat due to the RNG factor of KS. I maintain a Combat suit for raiding (CG/GSS), but I prefer Mutilate when the fight doesn't require much movement or target switching.
1)
I actually did count in the combat aspects from talents, you can go check. It normal +180 damage, but with the increased damage by % from talents it becomes +365 damage. You can clearly see this in my mats in the Adrenaline Rush part. (I counted every talent which increased damage of sinister strike)
2)
Prey on the weak does not only increase damage of your Sinister Strike.
3)
Hmm i totally forgot that its
both
mainhand and offhand. Ill redo the mats again in a sec.
Boss Encounters Contra Killing Spree: Comments of falconindy and mccal
Exactly my point! All im saying is that you shouldnt base a glyph on the fact that its less reliable on a
few
fights. I only gave examples on which you guys QQed about the tailswipes etc.. Same answer as u gave me...
LEARN TO TIME YOUR KILLING SPREE
. I also said to stop QQing about utility! All im giving is the proof that Killing Spree Glyph increases your dps more than the Adrenaline Rush Glyph.
2) You're talking about 40% more damage for (as I understand your post) for 2.5 seconds. You discount the extra combo move that one could use during that global CD, or at least I don't see where it figures in your calculation. AR glyph may only give you 1-2 extra CPs, but that may be the difference between having to refresh Rupture/SnD and getting off an extra Eviscerate, which does considerably more damage, as well as the free energy from Relentless Strikes and Combat Potency in that time. Which can then be used for more CPs, etc. etc. Yes, you can regen some energy during KSpr, but I don't believe you get Combat Potency proccs from the KSpr attacks (I may be wrong, never looked at the log to see where the 15 energy came from).
Its not like u get an other 2 attacks of Killing Spree, but u get to use it more often. The difference is that Adrenaline Rush lasts 5 seconds longer and that Killing Spree becomes usable more often. GCD shouldnt be a big problem, i mean u use it too, but less often than the people who have the glyph.
I based my 400 damage on what you posted earlier before the 2nd edit. That x 3 uses of KSpr in a 4 minute fight =1200. Doesn't matter if it's 5000 more damage over the course of the fight, you've either won or wiped. I've never seen the raid wipe with only 5k health left on the boss. DoTs will finish them off at that point.
You just dont get it do you? All im giving is the information that Killing Spree Glyph is better than Adrenaline Rush Glyph. This purely for dps and the spreadsheet will also show this, but again the flaw of spreadsheet is the loss of dps because of certain fights... If this was updated in the spreadsheet, than it would clearly show 40% more dps gain with the Killing Spree Glyph than with the Adrenaline Rush Glyph. I am giving BiP Glyphs, dun care much about preferences etc, but i hate QQers about tailswipes etc. You may like Adrenaline Rush more than Killing Spree, hey i dun mind. But atleast like it for the right reasons instead of saying that Killing Spree sucks because of utility in some fights.
I said, "I think," indicating that my statement was an opinion. You say you're giving the "real numbers" yet admittedly you haven't included the buffs we get from talents. In the model you've constructed, you're right. But that model does not accurately reflect the realities of the game mechanics. If you're going to support your opinion with the math, use the proper equations, don't make up new ones to make the data fit your conclusion.
I actually did calculate the talents. I however did not calculate Attack Power and since Attack Power is a gain in a % considering your amount of Attack Power. Well the diference in damage will be higher, but Killing Spree will still do 40% more damage than the Adrenaline Rush Glyph.
The mats part 2:
1)Adrenaline Rush: 5 seconds more on Adrenaline Rush gives 1.5 more Sinister Strikes.
Sinister strike is Weapon damage + 180 damage. Not calculating with the talents, it gets a +35% damage. So +180 damage, becomes +243 damage.
->Damage Increase: 1.5 weapon damage + 365.
2)Killing Spree: 4 (2mainhand + 2offhand) more attacks with 20% more damage on them and lets say one (two?) extra weapon damage(white hit).
->Damage Inrease: 1 weapon damage + 2 weapon damage increased by 20%
Calculation with
Silent Crusader
&
Hailstorm
:
Silent Crusader does 274-509 damage, thus its average hit is 392 ((274+509)/2).
Hailstorm does 164-306 damage, thus its average his is 235 ((164+306)/2))/
Adrenaline Rush
-> 392 x 1.5 + 365 =
953
more damage with the Adrenaline Rush Glyph
Killing Spree
-> 392 + 2 x (471) + 2 x (282) =
1898
more damage with the Killing Spree Glyph
So actually the Killing Spree Glyph does exactly 99% more damage than the Sinister Strike Glyph.
Concept:
If you equip Adrenaline Rush Glyph in spreadsheet than lets say that your dps will increase by 100 dps, but if u equip the Killing Spree Glyph instead of the Adrenaline Rush Glyph. Well than your dps will increase by 199 (99%) instead of 100. This means that Killing Spree is superieur.
Is 99% less damage worth the 1.5 extra combo points?
Post by
129299
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
70338
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Tolnuk
Killing Spree is lackluster, and its glyph is overrated. It's situational at best. Like many explained in this thread, a good rogue can never get taken out of position with an AR pop, but can be major screwed in many situations with KS.
WTB no-positionning change KS plz.
Post by
129299
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
70338
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
4466
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
AlphaQ
KS/SS/Rupture without a question for all fights in Ulduar except Kologarn.
Post by
129299
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
70338
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.