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AoE Tanking with 3k+DPS 5Mans?
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Post by
Hefaye
Here is the problem. Single target as a warrior tank I can put out 5k plus TPS without blinking. Then when I get into a 5 man with 4 plus adds someone will pull an elite with aoe damage or will target a target I am not focusing on and pull it. I mark skull which solves the problem, but sometimes I just don't like fighting to get leader in a pug so I just deal with it and don't mark skull. Then there is that one dps who wants to be a jerk and can't do a full rotation so targets a mob I am not focusing on and pulls. Now I am the fail tank.
I use glyph of cleave and sunder armor to directly address my aoe tanking issues however there seems to be one jerk in most 5 mans I don't get to mark that wants to hammer me cause he dies when he pulls some random trash mob.
I use thunderclap, shockwave, cleave, devastate, tab target at least once. Guild runs I don't have the problem very much, but it seems the class that pulls the most off me is a geared shadow priest.
Does mind sear do that much damage to pull? Yes, I put vigi on him.
My gearscore is 4500plus btw with 4 piece 8.5.
Post by
kemikalkadet
Mark a skull. There's pretty much no way that you can hold aggro on a mob that DPS is going all out on if it isn't your main focus. If the DPS can't follow the kill order then it's likely he wants to tank, let him, he'll die and learn that tanking is best left to the dude with the shield.
As for what you can do personally, what is your expertise and hit like? with 4 piece t8.5 you easily outgear heroics, you can afford to use some pieces with high expertise and high block for max threat at the expense of a bit of EH and avoidance. When our tanks run heroics they like to put on some DPS trinkets or a couple of PvP pieces for max damage. Makes things a bit more fun and stops our healers getting bored healing overgeared tanks that never take any damage.
Post by
447830
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Post by
Hyperspacerebel
If they pull it they tank it. That usually solves the problem in 5 or so minutes.
And if they die and are rezed don't wait for them to eat/drink, just pull the next group.
Post by
318373
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422275
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152897
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Post by
Rubendesmet619
On my armswarrior I got f.ex. 3.6k DPS on overal in the daily heroic UK today.
I EXPECT to tank bosses and for you to lose aggro, I EXPECT to tank a mob on trash, I EXPECT the healer to keep me up.
And the healers enjoying it as they finaly have somthing to do.
Post by
435881
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Post by
Hefaye
Alright, thanks for the affirmation that its not me but, the dps that is the issue. I will start rolling ahead allot more to get a head start on threat. I like the comment on the dpser who said he expects to pull threat on a trash mob. I will handle my groups with a stronger hand versus the nice hand and let some dps die versus chasing the mob they pull off.
Post by
138583
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Post by
Gurrock
I've been having the same issue as the OP lately. But in my experience it's always been that way since back in the vanilla wow days. I just lay it out, straight and clear: the party has two choices, make me lead (if I'm not already) so I can set a kill order...and follow it of course, or they assist off me and gain the target that way. After that, if some dps (for me it's usually a dk) wants to go john rambo, that's all well and good. I just hope they like repair bills cause with me, you pull it you tank it. I sure as hell won't save the arse of someone who just does what they want and then not accept the consequences.
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156946
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302982
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Post by
pak52b
Well, I must admit, that I am guilty of being one of those DPSers that isn't the most cautious while doing heroics. Usually, they are chain-pulled guild runs with tanks who know what they are doing and are constantly "on the ball"
I do pull aggro, but at the current "life expectancy" of a trash mob, I don't think it's that bad. As a fury warrior with over 5k AP unbuffed, spamming cleave and whirlwind (after the tank has the initial aggro), it is inevitable. If a healer or tank complains, I will ofc back down a bit.
THE biggest help you can give yourself is marking skull and maybe even cross, and asking dps to give you a second or two to get aggro.
I also tank a lot of 5 mans and I feel your pain, (especially with SP's). Spam your AOE stuff (cleave, TC, SW...) and tab targets with SS / revenge. Taunt as often as needed and off CD - if it is, try to stun.
Another thing that i find invaluable (I know this is nothing special, and probably every warrior tank uses, but still) is my charge focus macro. Heroic Throw on the second target (caster if possible - Gag Order ftw), and charge and finally target the focused skull. Queue Cleave, T-Clap when they get together, shockwave, Cleave, and SS, and they should be yours.
If it's causing a mess, it's definately something that needs to be coordinated with the dps.
Sure, it's only a 5 man, but repair bill gold is wasted gold.
Post by
Gurrock
I think the main thing in question here isn't so much wether or not we, as Warriors, can indeed sufficiently tank more than just a few mobs at once, rather I think the main thing is what should the general reaction be towards a DPS who just unloads on anything in sight, with no regards to what the kill order may/may not be. Gear wise I'm not the best tank out there (especially since I'm notorious for disappearing for a few months at a time -_-) but skill wise, I have been hailed as one of the best tanks on my server, and I know that I can handle a large pull without any issues.
The thing that has been getting me, and I know it's most likely due to my toons being unguilded (RL commitments, people not wanting someone who can't make 90% of their raids blah blah long story), but I PUG almost all my heroics, and I rarely ever get put in the lead. I'll ask, but I'll only ask once. A simple 'Can I get lead so I can mark mobs?' is more than enough, and if the guy doing invites has the urge to constantly be in the leader slot, well so be it. So without the ability to slap a skull on the priority target, I simply tell DPS to assist off me, for simplicity reasons. I don't care honestly if a DPS pulls a mob cause he's not assisting, but my rule still stands: You pull it, you tank it. Period. So it's more the fact of common courtesy...and common sense...that if there is no mark, you assist. When that's not done, you tend to get a little annoyed, though that just may be a pet peeve of mine, and it's even worse when the person pulling aggro whines about getting killed, and then blames the tank.
So I guess the question here would really be, if a DPS doesn't follow kill order/doesn't assist, pulls aggro, and dies, do they have the right to complain about it OR should they have more room in their head than more than just 'SMASH!'? My opinion is the latter. I don't think we as tanks are responsible for covering someones arse if they're not going to use common sense/follow kill order, as we're already trying to prevent X amount of mobs from pwning everyone who DOES have common sense not to go buck wild. Yes? No? Thoughts?
Post by
pak52b
that is very true.. however, wotlk has turned pulls from "sheep star, trap blue" to "aoe the ***** out of things".
dps may focus on the skull, but dont forget that whirlwind hits four targets, cleave three, etc. shadow priests are horrible when it comes to aoe, and locks as well...
there is a thin line where it comes down to "is it the tank who is failing, or the dps?"
popping recklessness and whirlwinding a group of mobs right after the first t-clap is stupid... but so is having to stop dps if you waited long enough because the tank isnt doing his job. if it's an undergeared tank, sure - understandable. but if the gear levels seem to match, i should at least be able to go all out on skull, while keeping my normal rotation (WW)
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357881
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243770
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Post by
Proky
its dps fault, i know this, one rogue is attacking one mob, one mage is attacking another target and you are tanking another target, its dps fault or you should at least mark skull, and when you kill you should have enough threat for other targets until end of fight
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