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A Compromise for Ret Pally Burst
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Post by
79146
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Post by
326089
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
79146
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
326089
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Post by
79146
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Post by
00bender00
Or we could change SoB from the proc system entirely. Instead of causing it to have a %chance to do Holy damage, we could have it do a flat 100% chance to do added moderate Holy damage.
It is already like that. SoB does less damage then SoC. SoC has a chance to proc, SoM procs all the times.
You sure know little about paladin mechanics for the amount of QQ you pull on these boards.
Post by
Katsudon
Dk/War/Rogue all have snares. Pally does not.
War/Rogue have MS effect. Pally does not.
Dk/War/Rogue all have interrupts. Pally does not.
Dk has silence. Pally does not.
All 4 have stuns.
When it comes to fighting against these 4 classes, unless your another melee class, your best option is to kite. Of the 4, pally is by far the easiest. When it comes to trying to heal through the damage done by one of these 4 classes, trying to heal through a pally is again, by far the easiest. Ret pally has 2 tricks: high burst damage, and bubble. While these are great tools for facerolling people in BG's, in arena, it still has limitations and weaknesses to be exploited. Ret provides a hard counter to several classes but not all.
A nerf to ret pally burst, no matter how small would need to be countered by the addition of either a snare, a MS effect (god please no), an interrupt or a silence (again, god please no) Personally i think its fine the way it is. Its powerful but not ridiculous like DK, who can control you so easily (fighting a warrior? no problem, keep him out of melee range if you want. fighting a caster? no problem keep him within melee range.)
Post by
79146
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Post by
Katsudon
Hello Hand of Freedom, support spells, and 15% move speed. They can't be given a snare if they're that difficult to snare in the first place. Between JoJ, HoF, and 15% MS, it's hard to shake a Ret Paladin. Coupled with the amount of support abilities, they'd be ridiculous.
They're not easy to kite if you cannot peel off HoF.
It is already like that. SoB does less damage then SoC. SoC has a chance to proc, SoM procs all the times.
You sure know little about paladin mechanics for the amount of QQ you pull on these boards.
Cool, all of my posts regarding Ret Paladins are invalid due to messing up one point.
Should be changed from all melee to all white attacks.
This entire thread is about nerfing ret burst, which implies nerfing their ability to kill people quickly. Support abilites that pallys have are all survival based, and don't help with getting kills directly (they do indirectly by allowing your team to survive longer and therefore get more time to deal more damage....... but other classes *cough dk/war/rogue* have support abilities/peels too.)
And yes, ret pally are easy to kite. If you think ret pallies are difficult to kite, then every other class must be humping your leg constantly. Who's the ret going to HoF? Himself so he can land a couple extra white hits, or his healer whos being hamstring-sat-upon by my arm's teammate. Its even worse if your healers being sat upon by crippling poisons or CoI + loldesceration. I think the answer is obvious. This isn't like when DK's say "lol we are weak to kiting" when in actuality they are just going to grip > CoI > desecration > CoI > Hungering cold > Pet stun > more CoI spam > repeat when grips up; Ret pally is legitmately weak to kiting cause it has no snares. 15% move speed does not equal 50% (or more) move speed reduction on the target your attacking.
Does it suck getting facerolled by multiple ret pallys in BG's? SURE DOES, i hate it as much as everyone else. But in arena, aside from the fact that they take awhile to kill, I don't find them to be particularly OP at all. And no, i'm not a pally.
Post by
368668
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Post by
79146
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Post by
143827
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Post by
00bender00
You dont get why JoJ sucks.
Cause its not a helpful snare TO OTHERS.
It wont help your healer.
It wont "help" anyone else but you.
Decent snares can be used as a peel. Vs. any comp that can dispel magic there's no peel.
We fight M/R comps. Some are easy, some are
not
. Some own us badly.
I guess it depends on the players... You may not be as good as you think.
After all, i'm not a variable of the equation since i only have to faceroll, right?
Post by
Coaldog
First off, maybe there should be a talent or something so that the bubble (divine shield) would be around 6secs like DK Anti-Magic Shell and then maybe have a lower cooldown. That's one of the main things that annoy at least me, when a paladin gets that cheat god-mode and heals himself to full health and/or comes and rolls over your face.
Secondly, maybe Judgement of Justice should have an interrupt effect, so paladins could finally get a good one. Judgements have 10sec (or 8 sec with talents, 7sec with a set bonus) cooldown (in comparison, shamans' Earth Shock has 6sec) so it doesn't seem that OP in the end. It would help retadins to take down healers even a little.
EDIT:
typos
Post by
cloudp
Out of this posts, the one nerf i feel that is most justified and needed is Vindication. -20% to all stats is absurd in wrath of the lich king. Imagine (I take a pvp medium geared player) you have 1500 stamina. 20% cut is -300 stamina. If you dispell, you still won't regain that health - it is lost until healed. And if you dispel... in the 1.5s GCD you just used it will be reapplied in no time. And if you're a mana user using 500 intelect (a rather low number, but its an easier time with maths), you, in that same hit, lost 100 int, 1500 mana. Imagine the rage that would ensue if paladins were given a chance on hit effect that takes 300 stamina and 100 int? WoW community would be in an uproar. Vindication is, imo, too strong, really. It wouldn't be as much in BC. With WotLK stats, it is, and a lot.
(imagine a paladin against a tank. Vindication, on a 2500 stamina player, will inflict... 500 stamina, 5000 health, worth of damage... plus the melee swing or special atack damage and other possible procs.)
Post by
79146
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Post by
00bender00
Right, so JoJ is cool cause it doesnt fades when druids shift.
It still doesnt help my healer, and still doesnt help anyone but me (ok,again, except with druids).
And i still have no peels vs dispel/dps.
Hell, warriors $%^& on my shaman and they can even self remove repetance (funnily enough a few didnt read berserker rage tooltip and dont do so).
You wanna complain about FOTM OP comps, warrior + healer is the way to go, cause it simply counters ANY dps+healer (except, maybe the OP druids) setup.
You have it hard, very very hard, with ret+anything, i have it IMPOSSIBLE with warrior+healer, or fear teams (lock+priest). Guess what, 30% of the teams i meet are that way. Sigh.
I also wonder why every scrub noob warrior i inspect around in dalaran has a rating above 2k, while most ret paladins are stuck at about 1k. They grew up their skills in a week? Uhm.
If we was so absurdly OP, "faceroll to gladiator", then why its like that?
Post by
79146
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