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The Future of Lordaeron
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Post by
morginar
The aberrations that have the key to my cage are former Forsaken. Stillwater's experiments have the side effect of turning Forsaken into mindless zombies. Why do you think he's so afraid of letting this out? He knows that such a crime is punishable by true death.
Something the
noble bloke
says himself.
Forsaken frowns mindless undead. And i'm no expert on their laws either.
Plus it's war, why bother creating a law to protect their foes?
Also, I'm real happy for all of you, and I'mma let you finish.
But the Forsaken have Blight.
They're going to cover the Eastern Kingdoms in it. They own the Blight, so they own what it covers.
Ergo, they'll own Eastern Kingdoms.
Well, their agenda was to balance the leveling zones so horde as equal as many as alliance. So no conquest anytime soon.
Post by
Monday
Ok, basically I think that Lordraedon belongs to the worgen because they were ONCE human and the forsaken have taken their land so it's only fair that the worgen get to take the forsaken's land. Simple.
Forsaken were once human too...
Post by
4dehorde
This is it. I'm done. I can't argue with intentional illogic or nigh insanity.
I just attacked both sides unmercifully, and I have an alliance bias. Over half of my character roster is horde, and I have an alliance bias. Your ability to shake all sense from an argument is unparalleled, bravo.
So now you're resorting to insults? How mature of you.
Actually you attacked the Horde unmercifully. You defended the Alliance. Sorry, but that strongly hints your Alliance-biased.
For curiosity's sake, I'll ask the OP a question: what, exactly, was the point of creating this thread in the first place?
It is clear that you (4dehorde) are not going to change your opinion on the topic; I'm also going, on the basis of you being capable of some semblance of intelligent speech, to make an assumption of you not being an idiot, and therefore having enough mental faculties to understand that, with your phrasing, you are not going to convince anyone to change their opinion as well. Therefore, what is happening here is not a 'discussion', since that term implies parties exchanging arguments to reach some sort of a common grounds; what is happening here is 'preaching' - you are laying out your point of view, never intending to change it, and you are aggressively trying to lobby it as the absolute truth.
Quit making me sound like I'm some illiterate stupid barbarian. If you don't, I'll simply stop addressing you. I only have discussions with civil people. Call it what you like but this is in fact a discussion. Simply because I am not agreeing with you does not mean this is anything else. Who I ask you ever enters a debate actually intending to change their point of view? I am trying to reach common ground here. For once, I would just like to hear an Alliance fan admit their side has done terrible, terrible things. I am sick to death of them always pointing fingers at the Horde while covering up the wrongs of their side. Not once have I ever heard an Alliance fan admit their side does wrong and is not the league of heroes and justice they pretend it is. Such blatant fanaticism is intolerable.
This should be put down But i have to hammer one thing.
The Alliance did NOTHING wrong at taurajo.
We let them escape through a hole in our lines we put in ON PURPOSE. we WANTED them to flee and to only kill the military forces, Taurajo was a friking training ground/bottleneck southshore was neither.
Southshore was unprovoked mass murder, Taurajo was the destruction of a military objective.
Is it our fault that some quillboars did something smart to them and took advantage?
The Alliance did nothing wrong? I guess so. Aside from, you know, the massacre of civilians, including women and children.
Sorry, but there is no evidence to suggest any civilians were simply allowed to escape. And Taurajo was not a training ground, it was a simple hunter's camp. Southshore on the other hand was a military staging ground and supply port.
And yes, it is the Alliance's fault the quillboar attacked the fleeing survivors. If they had not attacked Taurajo unprovoked those survivors would not have had to flee in the first place.
When did they kill civillians? The Flight master and others who fought back don't count btw.
Try almost everyone in the entire village. And those who defended themselves don't count simply because they defended their lives? How convenient. You are a typical Alliance fan, Lordplatypus. When the Forsaken kill civilians they are evil and must be subjected to genocide, but when the Alliance does the same thing it doesn't count.
There simply is no comparing Taurajo and Southshore. Taurajo was a small almost all civilian town While Southshore was filled with military and used for military purposes.
Post by
Skreeran
Yeah, I'm pretty much done arguing at this point.
Post by
morginar
Tell me what happened at Taurajo. (player)
Ah yes, our assault on the Horde town of Taurajo. I struggled with the implications of the decision.
Taurajo was admittedly what you might call a 'soft target,' primarily a hunters' camp.
Still, it had been used to recruit, equip, and train Horde infantry for many years.
When our scouts reported that Taurajo's most dangerous units were out on the hunt, we had to act quickly.
We sacked the town? (player)
<Hawthorne wrinkles his brow.>
I would prefer not to use the term 'sacked,' but yes, the attack went off flawlessly. We removed Taurajo from the equation, confiscated its arms, and destroyed its smithing facilities. The assault gave our forces considerable breathing room and knocked the enemy off balance.
Nonetheless, during the assault, I instructed my men to leave a gap open in our lines...
Why did you do that? (player)
Taurajo had a significant civilian population. I wanted to ensure that they could escape the fighting, and many did, finding refuge in the north.
There are some, even in Alliance High Command, who argued that I let an opportunity slip away. That I should've taken hostages. But I don't see the value in those sort of terror-tactics.
Hear me out, Aratos: I want this war to end someday. It won't ever stop if we butcher or imprison civilians.
I just pray that there are those on the other side who see things as I do.
From
General Hawthorne
Valid military target... Confirmed.
I'm starting to fell...
Yeah, I'm pretty much done arguing at this point.
What agrument do you posses to lay a claim from a canon source that shouthshore is a military target?
And as if a calling a village a military target makes the act a good one is ludicrous.
Post by
Monday
Southshore on the other hand was a military staging ground and supply port.
What's your source? Give me an in-game or book based source.
And we have the word of an Alliance general that Taurajo was a military target. That's canon.
Post by
Adamsm
Can we officially dub this the dead horse topic yet? Since all of the poor dead horses that exist in the Warcraft universe have been flogged at this point.
Post by
4dehorde
Tell me what happened at Taurajo. (player)
Ah yes, our assault on the Horde town of Taurajo. I struggled with the implications of the decision.
Taurajo was admittedly what you might call a 'soft target,' primarily a hunters' camp.
Still, it had been used to recruit, equip, and train Horde infantry for many years.
When our scouts reported that Taurajo's most dangerous units were out on the hunt, we had to act quickly.
We sacked the town? (player)
<Hawthorne wrinkles his brow.>
I would prefer not to use the term 'sacked,' but yes, the attack went off flawlessly. We removed Taurajo from the equation, confiscated its arms, and destroyed its smithing facilities. The assault gave our forces considerable breathing room and knocked the enemy off balance.
Nonetheless, during the assault, I instructed my men to leave a gap open in our lines...
Why did you do that? (player)
Taurajo had a significant civilian population. I wanted to ensure that they could escape the fighting, and many did, finding refuge in the north.
There are some, even in Alliance High Command, who argued that I let an opportunity slip away. That I should've taken hostages. But I don't see the value in those sort of terror-tactics.
Hear me out, Aratos: I want this war to end someday. It won't ever stop if we butcher or imprison civilians.
I just pray that there are those on the other side who see things as I do.
From
General Hawthorne
Valid military target... Confirmed.
I'm starting to fell...
Yeah, I'm pretty much done arguing at this point.
What agrument do you posses to lay a claim from a canon source that shouthshore is a military target?
And as if a calling a village a military target makes the act a good one is ludicrous.
No, not confirmed. You just have an Alliance general claiming a Horde town is a military target. Not exactly an unbiased source. Sorry, but just because Hawthorne claimed Taurajo was a military target does not make it so.
The fact that Southshore was a military staging ground and supply port is NOT open to discussion. It is a well-established fact that most people accept. As one of the most northern Alliance outposts in the Eastern Kingdoms it boasted a significant military presence and had been training Alliance soldiers and recruited others into attacking the Forsaken for years. Supplies from Southshore were used to fuel the Alliance war effort in Lordaeron. And that makes the town a military target liable for destruction.
I never said it made the act a good one. Again you put words in my mouth.
What's your source? Give me an in-game or book based source.
And we have the word of an Alliance general that Taurajo was a military target. That's canon.
One just needed to look at the quests and the military presence at Southshore prior to Cataclysm to confirm the facts.
Again, that is NOT canon. An Alliance general making claims about a Horde town is meaningless.
Post by
Monday
One just needed to look at the quests and the military presence at Southshore prior to Cataclysm to confirm the facts.
Not good enough. Give me an official source. The mere fact that guards were present at the town does not denote that it is military in nature. Otherwise, if we were to take your argument to its logical conclusion, every town on Azeroth is a military station.
Again, that is NOT canon. An Alliance general making claims about a Horde town is meaningless.
Yet we have no other sources. Until he proves himself entirely untrustworthy, we must either:
Listen to his words, which are Blizzard created and thus canon unless proven otherwise, or
Submit to your incredible bias which currently has no evidence to back it up.
Until you can prove that he is untrustworthy or dishonest (through the usage of canon events, not just "I don't like him because he attacked a Horde town"), then we must assume he is being honest and that Taurajo is, in fact, a military and supply station and a viable chokepoint to trap the Tauren in Mulgore and give the Alliance Expedition in the Barrens some breathing room.
Edit: It is a well-established fact that most people accept.
Pardon my French, but that's a load of scheiße. Every person on this board has disagreed with you, including all our pro-Horde players.
Post by
Skreeran
Pardon my French, but that's a load of scheiße.But that's German.
Post by
Monday
Pardon my French, but that's a load of scheiße.But that's German.
It's a figure of speech, Skree >.>
Post by
morginar
Pardon my French, but that's a load of scheiße.But that's German.
It's a figure of speech, Skree >.>
Pardon my German, but that's a load of taureau rouge.
Post by
Monday
... I see what you did there.
Post by
morginar
... I see what you did there.
Hohohoho.
Post by
Snake387
Tell me what happened at Taurajo. (player)
Ah yes, our assault on the Horde town of Taurajo. I struggled with the implications of the decision.
Taurajo was admittedly what you might call a 'soft target,' primarily a hunters' camp.
Still, it had been used to recruit, equip, and train Horde infantry for many years.
When our scouts reported that Taurajo's most dangerous units were out on the hunt, we had to act quickly.
We sacked the town? (player)
<Hawthorne wrinkles his brow.>
I would prefer not to use the term 'sacked,' but yes, the attack went off flawlessly. We removed Taurajo from the equation, confiscated its arms, and destroyed its smithing facilities. The assault gave our forces considerable breathing room and knocked the enemy off balance.
Nonetheless, during the assault, I instructed my men to leave a gap open in our lines...
Why did you do that? (player)
Taurajo had a significant civilian population. I wanted to ensure that they could escape the fighting, and many did, finding refuge in the north.
There are some, even in Alliance High Command, who argued that I let an opportunity slip away. That I should've taken hostages. But I don't see the value in those sort of terror-tactics.
Hear me out, Aratos: I want this war to end someday. It won't ever stop if we butcher or imprison civilians.
I just pray that there are those on the other side who see things as I do.
From
General Hawthorne
Valid military target... Confirmed.
I'm starting to fell...
Yeah, I'm pretty much done arguing at this point.
What agrument do you posses to lay a claim from a canon source that shouthshore is a military target?
And as if a calling a village a military target makes the act a good one is ludicrous.
No, not confirmed. You just have an Alliance general claiming a Horde town is a military target. Not exactly an unbiased source. Sorry, but just because Hawthorne claimed Taurajo was a military target does not make it so.
The fact that Southshore was a military staging ground and supply port is NOT open to discussion. It is a well-established fact that most people accept. As one of the most northern Alliance outposts in the Eastern Kingdoms it boasted a significant military presence and had been training Alliance soldiers and recruited others into attacking the Forsaken for years. Supplies from Southshore were used to fuel the Alliance war effort in Lordaeron. And that makes the town a military target liable for destruction.
I never said it made the act a good one. Again you put words in my mouth.
What's your source? Give me an in-game or book based source.
And we have the word of an Alliance general that Taurajo was a military target. That's canon.
One just needed to look at the quests and the military presence at Southshore prior to Cataclysm to confirm the facts.
Again, that is NOT canon. An Alliance general making claims about a Horde town is meaningless.
Actually, even the Tauren's own leader High Chieftain Bloodhoof admitted that Taurajo was a valid military target. Here's the link:
http://www.wowpedia.org/Camp_Taurajo
Post by
4dehorde
One just needed to look at the quests and the military presence at Southshore prior to Cataclysm to confirm the facts.
Not good enough. Give me an official source. The mere fact that guards were present at the town does not denote that it is military in nature. Otherwise, if we were to take your argument to its logical conclusion, every town on Azeroth is a military station.
Again, that is NOT canon. An Alliance general making claims about a Horde town is meaningless.
Yet we have no other sources. Until he proves himself entirely untrustworthy, we must either:
Listen to his words, which are Blizzard created and thus canon unless proven otherwise, or
Submit to your incredible bias which currently has no evidence to back it up.
Until you can prove that he is untrustworthy or dishonest (through the usage of canon events, not just "I don't like him because he attacked a Horde town"), then we must assume he is being honest and that Taurajo is, in fact, a military and supply station and a viable chokepoint to trap the Tauren in Mulgore and give the Alliance Expedition in the Barrens some breathing room.
Edit: It is a well-established fact that most people accept.
Pardon my French, but that's a load of scheiße. Every person on this board has disagreed with you, including all our pro-Horde players.
Not good enough? How convenient for you. Sorry, but you don't get to decide whether support for facts are "good enough". You can either believe the truth in front of you or continue to deny it and claim it false, though I must say to do the latter at this point is just foolish and stubborn. And fyi, there were high-ranking military officers stationed at Southshore, not just guards.
No other sources? I was hoping you'd say that. Behold! To quote Warlord Bloodhilt:
They sacked Taurajo, which was little more than a hunters' camp.
We have two conflicting reports of what Taurajo was prior to the massacre. Excuse me if I don't feel inclined to believe the report of the ones who utterly annihilated the town and its people.
Correction, YOU guys have disagreed with me. You don't speak for all Warcraft fans. You are the first ones I have ever encountered who want to challenge the old and well-established facts of Southshore being a military town. Call it what you like in any language you like, but you cannot change the proven truth.
Sorry Snake, but a wiki is NOT an acceptable source.
I know none of this will matter to you all or anyone else here. You're all the same. The Alliance is all good with not a single fault and the Horde is the ultimate evil in your eyes.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Oh shut up you entitled twit.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##Do not insult each other. That won't be tolerated.
Post by
Skreeran
I still think it's hilarious that I have "a pro-alliance bias" when I play exclusively Horde.
Post by
Lordplatypus
So you would rather trust axe-crazy uberparanoid asshilt than baine, who was literally in charge of the race that made taurajo?
Post by
Adamsm
4dehorde, I have never seen anyone agree with you; I mean really, when the actual Horde players on the site are disagreeing with you, that should tell you something, because 85% of the people here are Horde.
To the topic at hand: Just let it die already. There is no resolution to this, there will never be one, so let it fade away or lock the damn thing before it turns into a massive flame fest.
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