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World War 3
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Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
I can't imagine most of Europe being fine with nuclear war happening
I think those holds true for almost all people on Earth.
Post by
Adamsm
I think that a US/China, US/China+Russia, or US/Russia war would include nuclear weapons, Ryjacork.
Aye it would, which would just escalate as more and more of the countries out there with nukes would start slinging them around after whichever country used them first.
I doubt that conflicts with NK would start a global war, mainly because Russia and China have already shown they don't support the actions of the country....now, if NK was used to spring board into other countries well....
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
I think that a US/China, US/China+Russia, or US/Russia war would include nuclear weapons, Ryjacork.
Probably the main reason it wont happen. But if it did, none of the countries you mentioned would fire a nuclear weapon against any of the others mentioned, on behalf of North Korea. Everybody knows what that would mean. Maybe a nuclear strike from China could be intercepted, but it would still do a lot of damage to the environment on a global scale. But Russia and the U.S.? Hell no. They both have thousands of nuclear weapons stockpiled, nobody could ever intercept that many.
I can't imagine most of Europe being fine with nuclear war happening so close to us (Russia) and considering how countries have been backing out of the Afghanistan war, even if no one would go against the states, I'd assume a lot of countries would sit idle.
It's not about going against the states. If a world war happened between China/Russia/U.S. it would mean the shift of the balance of power. Western European countries are much better off with the United States being the most influential powerful nation on a global scale, than they would be with Russia or China. As I said, their interests are tied to that of the U.S.
Post by
Adamsm
And a lot of the US interest/products are tied to China so....
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
The question with China is tough. Most of the Western Worlds economies are tied to the U.S. in varying degrees of strength and the U.S. and China's economies are both tied very strongly to each other. The thing is China exports something like 3-4 times the amount of goods to us than they import from us. So while we both need each other, the U.S. needs China more than China needs the U.S. (from an economic standpoint).
The reason China is able to do this is because they mass produce items of poorer quality than those made in countries with actual civilized labor laws. They can mass produce items in sweat shops and stuff for like 10 cents an hour, and people buy them, despite the poor quality, because they are so much cheaper than other versions.
Post by
MyTie
I can't imagine most of Europe being fine with nuclear war happening
I think those holds true for almost all people on Earth.
Oh yeah I know but if war happens far from you, you can pretend it doesn't happen. In your neighbour country? Not so much.
If it happened in China it's more likely people would be scared of course but still go "meh, it's Americas war"
There is no such thing as a regional nuclear war.Western European countries are much better off with the United States being the most influential powerful nation on a global scale, than they would be with Russia or China. As I said, their interests are tied to that of the U.S.
I kind of wish this. I kind of wish that people would get what they have been asking for for years: no US to police the world. Let them have what they want. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the &*!@#s and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No." They had a choice, all of them. They could have followed in the footsteps of good men like my father or President Truman. Decent men who believed in a day's work for a day's pay. Instead they followed the droppings of lechers and communists and didn't realize that the trail led over a precipice until it was too late. Don't tell me they didn't have a choice. Now the whole world stands on the brink, staring down into bloody Hell, all those liberals and intellectuals and smooth-talkers... and all of a sudden nobody can think of anything to say.Do we want to abandon an economy like Chinas though? (legit question, I don't know anything about economy)
I don't buy the anti-Chinese sentiment in the US. I think that the cost of manufacture in the US is too high, and that is what is to blame. Unfortunately, China violates human rights, to manufacture at low costs, but the US doesn't help itself with all the union idiocy.
China also does a lot of economic speculation without realistic research into market potential, which has hurt them in the long run. As for "abandoning" them, I don't think that is even a possibility. They are too much of a big player. If anything, the economic debt that the US has toward China will improve relations between the two. China, in the end, wants that money. That debt is good for them, so they don't want the US to be attacked or fall or anything.
I suggest improved relations, albeit under improved human rights.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
Like I said my in laws are from the Czech Republic, and there are a lot of people over there who remember what it was like being having Russia manhandle their economy. Europe may call America the worlds police, but if it came down to a Nuclear war they would side with America and recognize who the real bad guys are.
All the things that they hate about the U.S. are worse in China and Russia anyway.
I kind of wish this. I kind of wish that people would get what they have been asking for for years: no US to police the world. Let them have what they want. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the &*!@#s and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No." They had a choice, all of them. They could have followed in the footsteps of good men like my father or President Truman. Decent men who believed in a day's work for a day's pay. Instead they followed the droppings of lechers and communists and didn't realize that the trail led over a precipice until it was too late. Don't tell me they didn't have a choice. Now the whole world stands on the brink, staring down into bloody Hell, all those liberals and intellectuals and smooth-talkers... and all of a sudden nobody can think of anything to say.
Did you just suddenly go insane?
He was quoting Watchmen and I think some other stuff I didn't recognize.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
I wasn't trying to say that Russia are the "bad guys" btw. I mean my inlaws might say that, and 30 years ago they would have been very right, but today not as much. North Korea I think obviously are, and China are farther towards that side of the line than Russia.
My point was just that a war with Russia/China isn't like Afghanistan where a European country can stand idle and not be effected. Most of Western Europe at least is in a better position with the U.S. winning such a war than they would be with them being forced to pull back, or especially losing.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
I wasn't trying to say that Russia are the "bad guys" btw. I mean my inlaws might say that, and 30 years ago they would have been very right, but today not as much. North Korea I think obviously are, and China are farther towards that side of the line than Russia.
My point was just that a war with Russia/China isn't like Afghanistan where a European country can stand idle and not be effected. Most of Western Europe at least is in a better position with the U.S. winning such a war than they would be with them being forced to pull back, or especially losing.
Uuuuuugh why over-simplify things into good guys/bad guys? It's just propaganda. Yes, there are despicable breaches of human rights in NK. But let's be realistic, if the US were to get involved in a conflict with NK, would that
really
be their primary motivating factor? Come on, you know better than that.
Post by
Gone
I wasn't trying to say that Russia are the "bad guys" btw. I mean my inlaws might say that, and 30 years ago they would have been very right, but today not as much. North Korea I think obviously are, and China are farther towards that side of the line than Russia.
My point was just that a war with Russia/China isn't like Afghanistan where a European country can stand idle and not be effected. Most of Western Europe at least is in a better position with the U.S. winning such a war than they would be with them being forced to pull back, or especially losing.
Uuuuuugh why over-simplify things into good guys/bad guys? It's just propaganda. Yes, there are despicable breaches of human rights in NK. But let's be realistic, if the US were to get involved in a conflict with NK, would that
really
be their primary motivating factor? Come on, you know better than that.
Dude don't try and twist my words, you know what I meant. there are no good guys or bad guys in most political conflicts, when I said "good guys" I meant the "good guys" regarding western Europe's best interest. When I say "bad guys" I'm referring to despicable human rights violations of those in power.
I think America has a better chance with east asia on their side (that's tricky, no one wants to side with north korea, but would they go against china?)
I mean what does western europe really have to offer? Do we secretly have a lot of military that no one ever mentions since we never threaten anyone?
What we should do is smuggle me in to north korea, I'll seduce jong eun, and this will all be over with. He's only in his 20's, it's not
that
weird.
France, UK, and Germany are all game changing military powers. All together I think the European Union is considered a greater world power than China or Russia.
Post by
MyTie
Did you just suddenly go insane?
Why? Did I suddenly make sense to you?Of course, after what the US pulled following 9/11(Gitmo anyone?), they can fall under either of those categories.
They should have handed out flowers instead.All together I think the European Union is considered a greater world power than China or Russia.
I agree with this, especially if the US deploys the missile shield system to Eastern Europe. The problem there, though, is that I think Obama is more or less trying to work toward Russian interests, as evidenced by his embarrassing open mic moment. I still cannot fathom anyone voting for that guy.
Post by
Adamsm
See that's why I deleted that post.
Post by
Patty
"The real bad guys" and "NK I think obviously are" came across as pretty clear, you know. It's just a terrible way of phrasing things if that's not what you meant. But, tangent.
I think western Europe as a whole's best interest is to stay neutral - it's well out of range of NK's missiles and I doubt if NK were to enjoy a victory over the US it would last long, or lead to a worldwide communist revolution or something. That said, obviously some countries have interests to protect in that region, same as the US.
I also think it's incredibly dangerous to even consider toppling the Kim dynasty so suddenly - the power vacuum and instability that would emerge, plus nuclear weapons and several million people indoctrinated by the government out for revenge? It sounds like an absolute recipe for disaster. I mean, Russia was a relatively peaceful transition from communist dictatorship to, well, not, but the situation there is hardly great now either.
Post by
Gone
I think a lot of mistakes were made by the U.S. after 9/11. For example 5000 people (American citizens mind you, protected by the Constitution) were unlawfully detained and questioned without a lawyer or trial or anything within the three years after 9/11. Of those 5000 they only found enough evidence to put 3 of them on trial, and only gained a conviction on 1.
That being said there is a big difference in what the United States did in response to a terrorist attack, and what North Korea does just to keep those in power wealthy and powerful.
I think western Europe as a whole's best interest is to stay neutral - it's well out of range of NK's missiles and I doubt if NK were to enjoy a victory over the US it would last long, or lead to a worldwide communist revolution or something. That said, obviously some countries have interests to protect in that region, same as the US.
I'm speaking of a global war with Russia/China/NK.
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