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Avatar (animated TV show) ~potential spoilers~
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Post by
Haxzor
Saw the second half. Yep, it was awesome.
This is kind of a retcon of the previous accounts of how people learned bending. Previously, it had been established that the sky bison, dragons, badgermoles, and the moon had taught the early people bending. So either the humans learned how to bend before starting to live on the lion-turtles, or it's a retcon.
Not necessarily. Its not really a retcon.
Remember that these events took place tens of thousands of years in the past, long before the cultures and nations we know today were created. With the passing of time, history becomes legend, and legend becomes myth, until there comes a point where truth ends and fabrication begins.
Its entirely possible that as millenia passed, and new cultures arose, they created (AKA: Made up) their own explanations as to where their powers come from.
For example, in real life, nobody knows which human first harnessed the power of fire. Who discovered it? who invented the methods to create and control it? Where did this took place? when? For all we know, it may have been an ancient prehistoric caveman hundreds of thousands of years ago, who saw a tree hit by lightning, and took the branch with fire with him.
But the Greeks proclaimed that humanity discovered fire due to Prometheus stealing it from the gods and giving it to mankind.
Same goes for the Avatar-verse. Humans got the gift of bending from the lion-turtles, but as they stopped living in isolation and began creating their own cultures, indepentent of any guardians to keep them safe, they began to make up their own mythology and explanations of where their powers come from.
It may have helped that after settling in on their new surroundings, the badgermoles, dragons, moon and sky bisons did indeed served as inspiration to improve their newborn bending abilities.
I'm surprised you say that its a retcon, considering you were the one who introduced me to TVTropes, and there is a trope for what just happened with the real origin of bending:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FutureImperfect
Nah, you guys are getting it all wrong, they got the power of the elements from the Lion Turtles but they learnt how to control the elements from the "Original Benders". You can clearly see Wan learning the Dragon Dance from a Dragon, but they obviously didnt have enough time to show him mastering the elements with the other 3 (Sky Bison, Moon, Badgermoles.)
Also those 2 episodes were ATLA level of @#$%ing incredible
Post by
Adamsm
Aye, the Turtles provided the Bending Energy, but the Humans learned how to master it due to the assistance of the Animal entities. And Wan probably learned how to master the other Elements either due to Rava or, like Hax said, the other Animals helped him too, and they couldn't show the montage due to time constraints.
Post by
Rankkor
Nah, you guys are getting it all wrong, they got the power of the elements from the Lion Turtles but they learnt how to control the elements from the "Original Benders". You can clearly see Wan learning the Dragon Dance from a Dragon, but they obviously didnt have enough time to show him mastering the elements with the other 3 (Sky Bison, Moon, Badgermoles.)
Also those 2 episodes were ATLA level of @#$%ing incredible
Nope, my explanation stands. Notice how nobody in history EVER mentions either the lion turtles, or Raava and Vaatu. Humanity indeed got the power from the lion turtles, and then learned how to master it from the moon/bisons/dragons/moles, but in their revised history, the lion turtles are left out entirely, and it was solely due to the animals alone that humanity got the power of the elements.
ten thousand years is a lot of time for important details to simply get lost in time.
I will agree with you that those 2 episodes are the apex of awesomeness. Even if I didn't liked the stylized art used, I absolutely LOVED the story of the first avatar, and I get goosebumps every time I see the original battle against Vaatu EVERY TIME.
Post by
Skreeran
Aye, the Turtles provided the Bending Energy, but the Humans learned how to master it due to the assistance of the Animal entities. And Wan probably learned how to master the other Elements either due to Rava or, like Hax said, the other Animals helped him too, and they couldn't show the montage due to time constraints.Really I wouldn't say the turtles "provided" any energy. I was under the impression that the turtles were essentially energy-bending: shaping and aligning the energy inside the person to align them to a particular element. Presumably, if a person spiritually trained long enough, they could bend their own energy toward an element.
And yes, these episodes were fully on
Spirited Away
levels of mind-blowing asian mythology. Previously, most of the spirits we'd seen looked like animals. Hei Bei the Panda, Tui and La the Koi fish, Wan Shi Tong the Owl and his Fox helpers, that Monkey in the Spirit World.
The only really weird spirit we'd seen was Koh, but now we have huge numbers of crazy-ass spirits. I saw a buff carrot, ffs!
Post by
Haxzor
Pretty sure they're a homage to Miyazaki.
Post by
Rankkor
LMAO
Post by
Gone
Haha I love Honest Trailers
Post by
Gone
Is it wrong that I want Verick to whack Mako and just get away with the whole scheme and be one of the guys for the rest of the series?
Post by
Skreeran
So I'm confused. Can or can't you bend in the Spirit World? IIRC, Aang couldn't in TLA.
Post by
Haxzor
So I'm confused. Can or can't you bend in the Spirit World? IIRC, Aang couldn't in TLA.
You know, it was really unclear
Post by
Rankkor
So I'm confused. Can or can't you bend in the Spirit World? IIRC, Aang couldn't in TLA.
You know, it was really unclear
Not quite.
Edit: rephrasing this better.
Unalaq flat out tells us why its possible. Its because of our physical bodies. You need a physical body to bend, anyone else who's entered the spirit world, does so via their spirits, while leaving their bodies behind. We saw Aang enter the spirit world multiple times, and in all of those times, it was just his spirit entering, his body always remained behind. The same thing happened with Korra and Jinora, who entered spiritually but left their bodies behind.
Avatar Wan and Unalaq however, physically entered the spirit world, bringing their physical bodies with them, and this is what allowed them to bend. We will have confirmation of this on the next episode, when we see if Jinora and Korra can bend or not while inside. I'm willing to bet they wont.
In another topic, I'm in awe at how well written Varrick is. The way he tries to bribe mako into working for him is PERFECT. What an awesome way to flat out say "work for me or I kill your brother and ex-girlfriend" without ACTUALLY saying "Work for me or I kill your brother and ex-girlfriend"
Whereas Unalaq is a very obviously evil jerk, Varrick slipped right by us, despite MASSIVE amounts of foreshadowing. I checked, rewatching the whole season, there was a lot of subtle hints that Varrick wasn't as clean as he seemed, but at the time we were so focused on the EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVUL Unalaq that we didn't paid attention to the kooky quirky harmless little clown.
He's also a master of manipulation, seeing how he used the triple threats against mako, then uses them against him and themselves. Good lord, this guy would make Vito Corleone, Kil'jaeden and Revolver Ocelot, Proud and Jealous at the same time.
And on yet another topic, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WRITERS, DO NOT HOOK UP MAKO AND ASAMI AGAIN. Good god. You know, romance is being handled very very poorly in this season. It was bad in season 1, in season 2 is almost puke-inducing. I hope to god they remove romantic plot tumors away for seasons 3 and 4, its just not working and its wasting several precious limited minutes of each chapter, to buildups that lead to nothing but angsts and cheap drama.
GAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH
/facedesk.
Post by
Haxzor
So I'm confused. Can or can't you bend in the Spirit World? IIRC, Aang couldn't in TLA.
You know, it was really unclear
Not quite.
Edit: rephrasing this better.
Unalaq flat out tells us why its possible. Its because of our physical bodies. You need a physical body to bend, anyone else who's entered the spirit world, does so via their spirits, while leaving their bodies behind. We saw Aang enter the spirit world multiple times, and in all of those times, it was just his spirit entering, his body always remained behind. The same thing happened with Korra and Jinora, who entered spiritually but left their bodies behind.
Avatar Wan and Unalaq however, physically entered the spirit world, bringing their physical bodies with them, and this is what allowed them to bend. We will have confirmation of this on the next episode, when we see if Jinora and Korra can bend or not while inside. I'm willing to bet they wont.
In another topic, I'm in awe at how well written Varrick is. The way he tries to bribe mako into working for him is PERFECT. What an awesome way to flat out say "work for me or I kill your brother and ex-girlfriend" without ACTUALLY saying "Work for me or I kill your brother and ex-girlfriend"
Whereas Unalaq is a very obviously evil jerk, Varrick slipped right by us, despite MASSIVE amounts of foreshadowing. I checked, rewatching the whole season, there was a lot of subtle hints that Varrick wasn't as clean as he seemed, but at the time we were so focused on the EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVUL Unalaq that we didn't paid attention to the kooky quirky harmless little clown.
He's also a master of manipulation, seeing how he used the triple threats against mako, then uses them against him and themselves. Good lord, this guy would make Vito Corleone, Kil'jaeden and Revolver Ocelot, Proud and Jealous at the same time.
And on yet another topic, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WRITERS, DO NOT HOOK UP MAKO AND ASAMI AGAIN. Good god. You know, romance is being handled very very poorly in this season. It was bad in season 1, in season 2 is almost puke-inducing. I hope to god they remove romantic plot tumors away for seasons 3 and 4, its just not working and its wasting several precious limited minutes of each chapter, to buildups that lead to nothing but angsts and cheap drama.
GAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH
/facedesk.
whoooooooooooooooosh
Post by
Gone
I want him to hook up Mako and Asami just so that he and Korra stay the @#$% away from each other. That pairing gave me eye cancer.
Post by
Rankkor
That pairing gave me eye cancer.
While this is very much true, Mako&Asami wasn't any better. It was almost as bad, they had practically ZERO chemistry save for a mild teen crush in one episode.
I said it once and I'll say it again, romance has been handled HORRIBLY, in this second show, both in the first and now second season. I'm hoping seasons 3 and 4 lack any form of romance if this is how they wanna work them, if that's not a posibility, at the very least devote as little time as possible to that, but for the love of god, I hope they don't do a FULL EPISODE devoted to pure romance like in season 1. That had got to be the most pointless waste of time I've seen in quite a while. You could practically skip that, and miss absolutely not a thing, wereas skipping the other chapters would be quite detrimental.
Post by
Gone
I agree, but I would rather have two characters I don't really care about pair up, rather than risk one of them pairing with a character I like. At least with those two together, it keeps the disease contained, so to speak.
It's not that I don't like Asami, but she and Mako are both kind of bland. So it's not like either of them would have much chemistry with either. At least as of yet.
Post by
Skreeran
Something else that I thought of while at work:
Based on how this season is going, Korra is going to be a MUCH more historically significant avatar than Aang.
When the history books are written, Aang will be the Avatar that dealt with Firelord Ozai and ended the 100 Year War, but Korra is going to be THE FIRST AVATAR AFTER WAN THAT DEALT WITH THE LIVING EMBODIMENT OF DARKNESS AND DESTRUCTION AFTER WAKING UP FROM HIS 10,000 YEAR CYCLE OF DEATH AN REBIRTH.
Seriously, the stuff that's going on in this season is so %$#@ing much more epic in scope than TLA. That's not to say it's better, but the stakes are way higher.
Post by
Gone
Something else that I thought of while at work:
Based on how this season is going, Korra is going to be a MUCH more historically significant avatar than Aang.
When the history books are written, Aang will be the Avatar that dealt with Firelord Ozai and ended the 100 Year War, but Korra is going to be THE FIRST AVATAR AFTER WAN THAT DEALT WITH THE LIVING EMBODIMENT OF DARKNESS AND DESTRUCTION AFTER WAKING UP FROM HIS 10,000 YEAR CYCLE OF DEATH AN REBIRTH.
Seriously, the stuff that's going on in this season is so %$#@ing much more epic in scope than TLA. That's not to say it's better, but the stakes are way higher.
Well, yes and no. Aang was sort of like the first of the second generation of Avatars. The entire world thought he was gone until he came back again. You also have to take into account the level of destruction that the fire nation wrought on the world. They basically wiped out an entire race of people in a single generation, and were pretty damn close to doing it again in the final episode. If Korra puts Vatu down as fast as Wan did, then I doubt it will effect the world as much as a war that lasted over a century. Plus we don't know everything that Aang accomplished later in life.
That being said, she has still accomplished things that he didn't. In all over TLA he never really managed to be able to control himself in the avatar state, which is something that she can already do. She was also able to bend multiple elements at a much younger age than him.
Post by
Skreeran
Again though, what was at stake if Aang lost? The Fire Nation takes over the world and turns it into an oppressive monarchy.
What are the consequences if Korra loses? THE ENTIRETY OF HUMAN CIVILIZATION WILL BE WIPED FROM THE EARTH.
Seriously, the worst, most dangerous person in TLA was a very, very bad man. In TLoK though, the threat is a hitherto unknown primordial evil spirit with a ten thousand year death and rebirth cycle that has existed for all time and will continue to exist for all time as far as we can see. An enemy who the Avatar, as the inheritor of Raava's power is destined to do battle with over and over for eternity. And Korra is the first one, since the Avatar's creation, to have to face him.
Don't get me wrong, I love TLA. I think it was a perfect series and the finale was one of the finest pieces of animation I've ever seen. There's nothing wrong with having a human antagonist. It lends humanity and personality to the part.
But as far as scale goes within Avatar canon, Korra is a MUCH, MUCH more significant avatar. Aang ended a war and was a genetic bottleneck for airbenders. Korra, though, is the first avatar since Wan to have to deal with Vaatu.
Post by
Gone
What made TLA a more epic scale though, was that the Fire Nation was already at large. Vatu has been asleep for thousands of years, and if Korra even fights him, she's probably just going to shove him back into the spirit world right away.
I agree, Vatu is a bigger threat, but his presence isn't as intimidating as that of Ozai and the Fire Nation.
I still don't know if I would call Korra more significant just because the threat she is currently dealing with is older and more powerful. Ozai would have eventually wiped out all the other races just like his grandfather did with the airbenders and throw the world out of balance. Maybe it's not primordial Lovecraftian chaos, but it's still pretty bad. And his threat was far more present and immediate than Vatu is.
To me, Ozai was like the threat of a nuclear war that could destroy civilization, and Vatu is like a asteroid far off in space that might one day crush the whole planet. Yes, the asteroid is a bigger threat, but the it's not the most present, or the one that affects the day to day lives of the most people.
Post by
Rankkor
This is me in speculation mode, but I don't think Vaatu is gonna be defeated in this season. Unlike season 1 which was a self-contained story arch, I think the whole gig with Vaatu is gonna take seasons 2 3 and 4.
Why do I think this? because not only as Skree pointed out, the stakes are higher than they've ever been (First we were dealing with a militaristic empire bent on world domination, then a fascist terrorist organization bent on revolution, now? we're facing the embodiment of darkness, a primordial evil with just as much (if not more) power than the very spirit of the planet, and who's goal is to enshroud the world in darkness and extinguish all life.) But asides from the stakes being higher, if the producers of the show are thinking what I am thinking, this could set up the ultimate villain for the avatar: The Anti-Avatar.
The avatar was created when the spirit of light fused with a human, can you imagine what would happen if Vaatu fuses with a human as well? he'd create a dark version of the avatar, and this enemy has the potential to be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more dangerous than anything else put together, because no matter how many times he or she is slain, they just reincarnate. Just like the regular avatar.
To have vaatu (and this potential of a Dark Avatar) go away in just 3 more episodes would be a huge waste IMO.
So I'm hoping this isn't a self-contained story arc like season one, and instead, its an ongoing struggle across many seasons, just like TLA was.
Just my thoughts.
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