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Private Messages
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Post by
Ahrendel
I'm really surprised that Wowhead hasn't created a private messaging system for the users yet. I think a system for it would be pretty sweet to have.
Post by
SquireKel
Sweet, yes, if used properly. But this could easily be abused, and the "private" part of the system would make moderating spam, inappropriate language, bullying, etc impossible.
Post by
yukonjack
Considering the content of a private message would be private I don't see how or why it would be up for moderation by wowhead mods. Users would have to moderate their own pm's by using an ignore and or appear offline option.
I like the idea.
Post by
SquireKel
Considering the content of a private message would be private I don't see how or why it would be up for moderation by wowhead mods. Users would have to moderate their own pm's by using an ignore and or appear offline option.
I like the idea.
I like the idea, don't get me wrong. But I'm painfully aware of harassment that occurs via the internet - the anonymity it provides gives a false confidence with a sense of no consequences. I mentioned three examples in my first response: spam, inappropriate language, and bullying.
Spam:
There's opportunities for spam to move from the forums (where it is quickly and easily removed) to personal messages that may be difficult to deal with accordingly.
Inappropriate Language:
The age of users varies completely across the board, as well as opinions on appropriate language and behavior. A younger child could be privately messaged with swear words or sexual-laden talk (suggestive innuendos or propositions) - highly inappropriate, but the use of an ignore function would hardly qualify as sufficient.
Bullying:
Also consider if a user feels another is attacking them in the forums or in comments - publicly, the moderators can not only view the entire interaction but can take measures to warn the player at fault and even ban them. A private message system would take that out of their eyes and make it more difficult for the victim to deal with alone.
Private messages could be a great way for users to interact quickly, as well as taking off-topic discussions out of pages. But it's important to look at all potential interactions, not just the ideal or beneficial ones. For that reason, moderation would be necessary - and unfortunately, this would just be far too much work, especially considering that many moderators are volunteers. Even if the conversations are private until one of the members presses a report button, there's no guarantee a moderator is on the site 24/7 and available to deal with private message reports, which means that some issues would slip through and harm the community.
Post by
Sas148
This has been suggested and discussed for years, here are a few topics for reference to help you see the perspective that's been provided by the staff here:
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=86667
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=195601
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=188941.2
Those are just a few I've noticed. Some are against it, some are for it... most recently though Ashelia said that the Dev's didn't have time for something like that right now, "ask us in a few months when things calm down." However, I don't think things have yet to calm down, especially with MoP beta content.
Someday... someday... just maybe... a PM system will be implemented. ;)
Post by
Monday
I know for a fact that Koper didn't want to have one, but as he's no longer here... I'm not quite sure of the rest of the team's position. I believe they're open to it, but not until long after MoP is out.
Post by
Sas148
I know for a fact that Koper didn't want to have one, but as he's no longer here... I'm not quite sure of the rest of the team's position. I believe they're open to it, but not until long after MoP is out.
Yea, I recall that conversation and had a link to it but since he no longer represents the Dev team I just excluded it.
Post by
Ahrendel
Sweet, yes, if used properly. But this could easily be abused, and the "private" part of the system would make moderating spam, inappropriate language, bullying, etc impossible.
Actually fairly easy to deal with. Given options to friend or ignore people should go hand in hand with a private message system, along with a report button much like for threads. If someone gets around the ignore (new accounts, etc), then a person simply reports for a moderator to give some attention.
Spam:
There's opportunities for spam to move from the forums (where it is quickly and easily removed) to personal messages that may be difficult to deal with accordingly.
There's opportunities to spam the forum anyways. I wouldn't advocate any sort of 'mass PM everyone on the site' option for this sort of reason, though it'd be nice to CC to a few people who are on a friends list. And, to be honest, if spammers and/or their bots are determined, they'll spam you no matter what.
Inappropriate Language:
The age of users varies completely across the board, as well as opinions on appropriate language and behavior. A younger child could be privately messaged with swear words or sexual-laden talk (suggestive innuendos or propositions) - highly inappropriate, but the use of an ignore function would hardly qualify as sufficient.
I'd like to think better of the Wowhead community than that, to be honest. There have been some hotheads, but... I don't think most here are bad in the way you're saying. Should there be restrictions? Absolutely. I think the same general rules for the forums should be applied. If someone goes overboard with obscenities in a PM, there would be a report AND and ignore function for such a reason.
Bullying:
Also consider if a user feels another is attacking them in the forums or in comments - publicly, the moderators can not only view the entire interaction but can take measures to warn the player at fault and even ban them. A private message system would take that out of their eyes and make it more difficult for the victim to deal with alone.
In virtually every forum I've ever been on that has private messaging, moderators and admins can look in PMs when called upon (I would hope such prestigious positions would mean they're mature enough not to go spying on everyone!) via the report button to make a moderation decision if needed. And even if someone does take to bullying another, the person has the option to ignore if not report.
Private messages could be a great way for users to interact quickly, as well as taking off-topic discussions out of pages. But it's important to look at all potential interactions, not just the ideal or beneficial ones. For that reason, moderation would be necessary - and unfortunately, this would just be far too much work, especially considering that many moderators are volunteers. Even if the conversations are private until one of the members presses a report button, there's no guarantee a moderator is on the site 24/7 and available to deal with private message reports, which means that some issues would slip through and harm the community.
Do you think mods are on 24/7 right now to monitor the forum? They have other things to do, ranging from taking care of the kids to playing WoW to watching Netflix and exercising and, well, you know. Being human. And if there aren't enough moderators to deal with such a huge influx (which I doubt it would be) of reports, the admins can always bring on a couple more to help out. There's a number of people who have been around that I'm sure they've considered previously for mod jobs but just didn't pick up yet.
Really, you're bringing up points that are all easily addressed.
Post by
TheReal
How about a friend request button? If approved, the two friends can communicate via private message. I'm guessing that would eliminate 99.9% of misuse. We don't even have to call them friends; instead, we could use something "cute" like Fellow Rocketeers.
I think PMs would be a nice addition and would encourage more site traffic.
Post by
Sas148
It should also be contingent on having enough reputation as to avoid issues with those who have malicious intentions. Probably at least 1k or something.
Post by
yukonjack
How about a friend request button? If approved, the two friends can communicate via private message. I'm guessing that would eliminate 99.9% of misuse. We don't even have to call them friends; instead, we could use something "cute" like Fellow Rocketeers.
I think PMs would be a nice addition and would encourage more site traffic.
Excellent idea
It should also be contingent on having enough reputation as to avoid issues with those who have malicious intentions. Probably at least 1k or something.
Made even better!
I would also like to add I do not see how a private message would be open to moderation, on the forum boards absolutely and for obvious reasons. All we would need is the above mentioned ideas I quoted and an ignore button.
Post by
Pwntiff
Many PM systems allow users to report messages for mod/admin review.
Here's my stance: It's not terribly necessary. A compromise, which may be easier to implement for the devs, could be a comment section on user profile pages. The comments could even be set to be visible only to the poster and the user whose page they were posted on.
I understand why some people want to have the PM system, but Wowhead started as a talent calculator, became a WoW database, then added a forum. Wowhead may be community-driven, but it's the cohesive community. Vent, IRC, Steam, or B.Net satisfy my needs for one-on-one communication.
Post by
Monday
How about a friend request button? If approved, the two friends can communicate via private message. I'm guessing that would eliminate 99.9% of misuse. We don't even have to call them friends; instead, we could use something "cute" like Fellow Rocketeers.
I think PMs would be a nice addition and would encourage more site traffic.
It should also be contingent on having enough reputation as to avoid issues with those who have malicious intentions. Probably at least 1k or something.
I thoroughly support both of these, though I think the rep requirement should be somewhere around 500. 1k can be a lot, but 500, while a relatively low number, still takes some time to reach, so the spammers will be kept out.
Post by
Izichial
I really don't see the benefits being worth the work needed to make it happen. As far as I know, the Wowhead forum was coded from scratch in-house and adding private messages would likely require significant effort even if the team has looked into it previously. Comments on user page would probably be less hassle, but the same could be true there.
This forum has pretty low traffic for being a "big site" so you don't really risk losing track of discussions and people. I'd hazard that very few people even among regular posters would be regular users of a PM system - and there are plenty of alternatives.
Like Pwntiff pointed out the forum grew out of the site and not vice versa and as such I sincerely doubt that adding a PM system to the forum would "encourage more traffic". It'd be a fringe benefit for a handful of people who are already involved in the community and be a non-issue for people who come here to look up
hunter weapons
.
Post by
TheReal
How about a friend request button? If approved, the two friends can communicate via private message. I'm guessing that would eliminate 99.9% of misuse. We don't even have to call them friends; instead, we could use something "cute" like Fellow Rocketeers.
I think PMs would be a nice addition and would encourage more site traffic.
It should also be contingent on having enough reputation as to avoid issues with those who have malicious intentions. Probably at least 1k or something.
I thoroughly support both of these, though I think the rep requirement should be somewhere around 500. 1k can be a lot, but 500, while a relatively low number, still takes some time to reach, so the spammers will be kept out.
I'm on board with sas148's idea for a rep requirement too, and like Funden said, I think 1k is a bit too high. 500 does sound pretty reasonable.
What I DON'T want to see a public statistic about how many "Fellow Rocketeers" a user has. Although it would probably increase site traffic as users stumble over one another to get as many friends as possible, the resulting popularity contest would detract from the PM system's intended purpose.
I think the PM system would also provide an excellent way for users to collaborate on guides. Can you say "symbiotic relationship?" I don't know if allowing file attachments would be a good idea or not, but perhaps it's something that might come later if people are asking for it and it could be implemented without too much headache.
Edit:
...I sincerely doubt that adding a PM system to the forum would "encourage more traffic".
Of course it would. Website traffic is measured in hits, and every new page load is a hit. Would the traffic increase caused by a PM system DIRECTLY pay for itself with increased traffic? Maybe not, but no one can predict how much the indirect benefits would provide to the site.
I will say that a PM system might take some conversations out of the forums. Would that be a bad thing or a good thing?
Post by
Izichial
Yeah ok, in an absolute sense it'd no doubt add (a sliver of) traffic, I was getting more at regular traffic in the form of new users or noticably increased activity from regular users. People who come here to look up previously mentioned hunter weapons will likely never be aware of the existence of a PM system and even if they did do you really believe they'd go "oh my, this database site also have PMs for registered users, I better get involved!"?
Collaborating on guides can be done anywhere, you don't PMs on Wowhead specifically for it.
Like I said previously, these forums are not particularly high traffic. Plenty of space for banter - the section specific off topic threads and the off topic section of the forum provides vastly more if you feel you're going too far off topic in other places (and at least as I've experienced the site during the past near six and a half years Wowhead has always been fairly tolerant of friendly banter no matter what the topic).
If it's too private to discuss publicly or too far out of bounds of what's discussed even in Off-topic, I fail to see why it should stay on Wowhead in the first place when commonly used alternatives already exist.
Post by
Monday
Would that be a bad thing or a good thing?
It might reduce the nearly legendacry amount derailing we have.
Post by
rahael
personally, i agree completely with all the downsides to a PM system that squirekel previously listed. in the past, we have seen that even high rep users can get upset in the heat of the moment and be inspired to write nasty things on the public forums. adding in PMs gives an illusion of total anonymity which can encourage worse behavior and would result in additional work for an already busy moderation team. instead, a compromise solution could be a wall style message system on each profile so that users can converse with each other informally but everything is still out in the open and reportable.
Post by
Sas148
I will say that a PM system might take some conversations out of the forums. Would that be a bad thing or a good thing?
That's actually my main concern about implementing one. Some of the fun on these forums is when 2-3 people are having a conversation or debate, etc and another person is able to chime in providing another perspective. A lot of that could be lost if a PM system is implemented.
Also, I thoroughly believe that the staff should be able to see these messages. Frankly, it's their site and anything sent on it and through it should be viewable to them. I'd compromise this by having the information not viewable but if a user feels the need to report the conversation for w/e reason to staff then once they do so it could become viewable to them.
But as I said, more paramount to me is the potential for lost forum conversations due to this system. That fact alone makes me want to scrap the idea entirely.
Post by
lankybrit
I just noticed that d3db has them. If they're considered worthy over there, why not here.
Cheers.
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