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Morality
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Post by
MyTie
Unless it's someone like Kony.
Again, I reject that I'm an adequate judge of who deserves to die.I would not murder a single person to save the entire world.
If you lived in a country where self-defence was considered murder, would you incapacitate an armed intruder to the home if you had the opportunity, even if there was a possibility that the consequences could be fatal for the intruder?
Meh... I put lives at risk when I drive to work. There are gray areas. You're going to have to accept that as an answer, because I don't really want to entertain too many "what ifs".
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Do you have any idea who Kony is or what he has done? And ya, I can judge who deserves to die when they do truly heinous things for no good reason.
I know who Kony is. I don't live under a rock. I just know that I am not a judge of who deserves to die. Isn't that a quality that Kony himself exhibits?
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
So, in your mind, noone, no matter what they do, not even if they razed an entire country to the ground and slaughtered every last living human being there, they don't deserve to die? Really now? And no, before you say it, it's not grey, or black, to wish death on a terrible mass murderer.
Slow down. I'm sure that lots of people deserve to die. I'm sure Kony deserves to die. No doubt. I just don't think you, me, or anyone else is qualified to decide who they are.
Post by
Lombax
So, in your mind, noone, no matter what they do, not even if they razed an entire country to the ground and slaughtered every last living human being there, they don't deserve to die? Really now? And no, before you say it, it's not grey, or black, to wish death on a terrible mass murderer.
If I understand it right he might think that a person deserves to die but he doesn't have the right to make the decision to murder him.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
@MyTie- If you truly, morally believe that no one has the right to decide who deserves to die, how do you reconcile that with your support of the US military? Even in a peacekeeping initiative, they are sending armed soldiers over there to protect certain objectives and people, with force if necessary. And people are going to die. It may be that people will die regardless, but by supporting the US military you are making a judgement that we should send people over to other countries and authorize them to become involved in making decisions about who will die.
I'm not saying that I don't support the military (as a concept, and in many cases I do- not unquestioningly or across the board, though) - but I also am of the opinion that there are circumstances under which it is morally acceptable to kill another human. Self defense, defense of another person, in response to crimes with a certain level of depravity, etc. If you don't believe that anyone should ever be allowed to make those decisions, even in these cases, then shouldn't you be fighting to pull out our troops, and not fund their actions with our tax money?
Post by
MyTie
@MyTie- If you truly, morally believe that no one has the right to decide who deserves to die, how do you reconcile that with your support of the US military? Even in a peacekeeping initiative, they are sending armed soldiers over there to protect certain objectives and people, with force if necessary. And people are going to die. It may be that people will die regardless, but by supporting the US military you are making a judgement that we should send people over to other countries and authorize them to become involved in making decisions about who will die.
I'm not saying that I don't support the military (as a concept, and in many cases I do- not unquestioningly or across the board, though) - but I also am of the opinion that there are circumstances under which it is morally acceptable to kill another human. Self defense, defense of another person, in response to crimes with a certain level of depravity, etc. If you don't believe that anyone should ever be allowed to make those decisions, even in these cases, then shouldn't you be fighting to pull out our troops, and not fund their actions with our tax money?
It's a rough question to answer. I've mostly avoided the moral resolution. I think that the need to prevent certain atrocities is necessary, but I don't know if unintended causalities are permissible. Sorry, but the best I can give you is "I don't know".
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Disregarding unintended casualties, then- do you think it's right for soldiers kill certain people to prevent atrocities if there are no innocent casualties? For example, is it right for a cop to shoot a man holding 20 people hostage in a bank at gunpoint, to prevent him from killing any of those people or the cops outside?
I don't know is still a perfectly acceptable answer- I don't blame you in the least because it can be a tough question.
I just bring it up because you were saying that even if you would be tempted to do it, you don't think it's morally right to ever take another life, even to "save the whole world." But on a practical basis, you seem to feel that we need to take measures to protect people from atrocities, including protecting them with force. I'm just pointing out that there is a grey area even in what you seem to feel is right and wrong in this case.
Post by
MyTie
Not necessarily. I feel, morally, that it is wrong to take a human life. Period. What I would do, now that is another story. Morally, I don't support the military, but you are asking what I do in practice. What I do in practice I cannot justify with my moral views. I am my own harshest judge.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Not necessarily. I feel, morally, that it is wrong to take a human life. Period. What I would do, now that is another story. Morally, I don't support the military, but you are asking what I do in practice. What I do in practice I cannot justify with my moral views. I am my own harshest judge.
And that's something I can just never understand. I am not saying I never screw up, or do something I shouldn't. But usually that's in a moment of weakness- I lie to a friend to get off the phone (even though I really should take the time to catch up) because I want to finish a game, or I get lazy and don't follow through on taking the laundry to the laundromat, even when I told my fiance that I would.
But none of my long-standing beliefs or ideas on how things need to work conflict with my morals. They are in fact the result of my morals. They may be different than other people's morals, which is what accounts for me not seeing eye-to-eye with people, but I couldn't argue that something should be done in a way that I think is immoral.
Post by
MyTie
And that's something I can just never understand. I am not saying I never screw up, or do something I shouldn't. But usually that's in a moment of weakness- I lie to a friend to get off the phone (even though I really should take the time to catch up) because I want to finish a game, or I get lazy and don't follow through on taking the laundry to the laundromat, even when I told my fiance that I would.
But none of my long-standing beliefs or ideas on how things need to work conflict with my morals. They are in fact the result of my morals. They may be different than other people's morals, which is what accounts for me not seeing eye-to-eye with people, but I couldn't argue that something should be done in a way that I think is immoral.
I'm not saying that things
should
be done in a way that is immoral, just that, if our actions are always moral, there will be people who would take advantage of us. I can't say that we should take actions to defend ourselves that will cause loss of life. I'm saying that we will, and that the consequences of always being morally right are unimaginably horrible. How do you expect me to answer to situations that not even the best philosophers can answer? All I can say is what is morally right. This is why I wanted to avoid "what ifs". I just can't answer to them. I don't care if it makes me look cheap or immoral. It's just honest.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
Not necessarily. I feel, morally, that it is wrong to take a human life. Period. What I would do, now that is another story. Morally, I don't support the military, but you are asking what I do in practice. What I do in practice I cannot justify with my moral views. I am my own harshest judge.
It's not wrong if the person deserved it, or it was done in self defense.
MyTie thinks it is wrong.
You think it is right.
Neither of you are objective moral compasses. I vote this to be an impasse.
Post by
MyTie
Agreed. I'm not trying to tell anyone that they are wrong and I am right, and I don't think that that is being done to me. I think this isn't really even a debate... just a comparison of beliefs.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
OverZealous
Not necessarily. I feel, morally, that it is wrong to take a human life. Period. What I would do, now that is another story. Morally, I don't support the military, but you are asking what I do in practice. What I do in practice I cannot justify with my moral views. I am my own harshest judge.
It's not wrong if the person deserved it, or it was done in self defense.
"Deserved it", however, is likely to be subjective.
Post by
Monday
Not necessarily. I feel, morally, that it is wrong to take a human life. Period. What I would do, now that is another story. Morally, I don't support the military, but you are asking what I do in practice. What I do in practice I cannot justify with my moral views. I am my own harshest judge.
It's not wrong if the person deserved it, or it was done in self defense.
"Deserved it", however, is likely to be subjective.
This as well ^
Sold appears to be basing everyone's morals off of his own, with no room for debate.
Post by
Lombax
As Kony was mentioned earlier, there is a reason to not kill him. He might become a martyr to some people resulting in that someone picks up what he did under his name rallying people to go against the political powers of Uganda.
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