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Occupy Wall Street Protests
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Post by
MyTie
A dire (and hilarious) warning from Glenn Beck:
"Capitalists, if you think that you can play footsies with these people, you're wrong. They will come for you and drag you into the streets and kill you. They will do it. They’re not messing around. Those in the media – and I am included in this – they will drag us out into the streets and kill us. If you’re wealthy, they will kill you for what you have. You cannot tolerate this kind of stuff. You certainly do not encourage it...they're Marxist radicals...these guys are worse than Robespierre from the French Revolution...they'll kill everybody."
(
source
)
Yes, but we don't vote for our
radical idiots
.
Post by
Heckler
Yes, but we don't vote for our
radical idiots
.
Oh
sure
you
do
.
Post by
HoleofArt
Yes, but we don't vote for our
radical idiots
.
Oh
sure
you
do
.
I lol'd.
Post by
MyTie
Yes, but we don't vote for our
radical idiots
.
Oh
sure
you
do
.
Not very familiar with the first two. DeMint I'm familiar with, and generally support his positions... but I feel we are going off topic quickly.
Post by
MyTie
We are here today because we agree 1% should not be controlling the (nation's) wealth. These (demonstrators) are regular people trying to feed their families, trying to pay their rent and mortgages, trying to survive.How much wealth does Sharpton have, and which political candidates has he donated to? What a piece of work.I lol'd.You'd fit in well at the middle school I went to when I was a kid. They didn't contribute either. Hey, I bet you could catch up with a lot of them on the streets of New York right now.
Post by
gamerunknown
I wonder if the black panther woman from the Network was based on Angela Davis?
Arguments that prisons should be shut down can come from the
right wing
, too though...
It's just they don't work when it comes to psychopathy. I think everything else can be mediated by some type of drug or lack of it, or some sort of program in order to get former prisoners integrated into society (with rapists that'd include castration, it's been shown to be pretty damn effective). Unless one can construct a limbic system for a psychopath, the argument just doesn't hold up for them.
Post by
MyTie
I wonder if the black panther woman from the Network was based on Angela Davis?
Arguments that prisons should be shut down can come from the
right wing
, too though...
It's just they don't work when it comes to psychopathy. I think everything else can be mediated by some type of drug or lack of it, or some sort of program in order to get former prisoners integrated into society (with rapists that'd include castration, it's been shown to be pretty damn effective). Unless one can construct a limbic system for a psychopath, the argument just doesn't hold up for them.
Getting very off topic. I agree with the idea of an alternative to the prison system, but that isn't what she is talking about. She believes in getting rid of the prison system because there is no reason for people to be in it, because it is just 'slavery', or something crazy. She believes that its all based on lack of education and racism. Not that there is any logical flow to this argument. I believe in getting rid of the prison system in favor of branding and exile. I don't think that all criminals should be integrated, or imprisoned, but just kicked out. That is quite a bit different from Angela Davis.
Post by
HoleofArt
I lol'd.You'd fit in well at the middle school I went to when I was a kid. They didn't contribute either. Hey, I bet you could catch up with a lot of them on the streets of New York right now.
I lol'd again.
Post by
gamerunknown
I believe in getting rid of the prison system in favor of branding and exile. I don't think that all criminals should be integrated, or imprisoned, but just kicked out
I was going to argue, but I suppose America does conveniently have Alaska. I also think that in order to be consistent, the citizenship test for immigrants to enter should apply to every individual that wants to claim citizenship, whether they were born here or not. If one fails it, one is kicked out.
Post by
MyTie
I believe in getting rid of the prison system in favor of branding and exile. I don't think that all criminals should be integrated, or imprisoned, but just kicked out
I was going to argue, but I suppose America does conveniently have Alaska. I also think that in order to be consistent, the citizenship test for immigrants to enter should apply to every individual that wants to claim citizenship, whether they were born here or not. If one fails it, one is kicked out.
What about retarded people?
Post by
gamerunknown
What about retarded people?
They have the same criterion as the others. Should the US allow any mentally impaired or comatose people become citizens by waiving the test, it applies to those currently living in America too. If not, they don't have the rights of citizens.
Post by
Heckler
Sounds like things in Boston got ugly last night:
http://occupyboston.com/2011/10/11/boston-police-brutally-assault-occupy-boston/
They say they had "an estimated ten thousand" people, which is a lot. Though facing the bitter cold and a police baton probably won't encourage many to keep coming out. I assume that's the game plan from the City though. I suppose its possible that such an aggressive move might garner support for OWS though... already a few tweets about that out there. From @OccupyBoston:
DO NOT LISTEN to how the BPD tries to spin this. We made a verbal agreement w/ the trust director to care for the land. No anarchists "took over." The aggression happened because they thought we'd go home after a couple of days. We didn't. Don't forget about Mayor Menino's interviews from the day before yesterday, saying we'd "worn out our welcome."
Joan Walsh already has a piece out on it on Salon.com (
link
). Also sounds like Seattle is threatening a similar action tonight if the group in the City park don't speak to the Mayor about relocating to City Hall Plaza. I guess the police harassed them all night long, threatening arrests last night, until the Mayor's office came out at 11pm and told them "no arrests would be made tonight." Tonight should be interesting.
Post by
MyTie
What about retarded people?
They have the same criterion as the others. Should the US allow any mentally impaired or comatose people become citizens by waiving the test, it applies to those currently living in America too. If not, they don't have the rights of citizens.
I know some retarded people that are unable to write, or understand anything, or talk, or even get out of the bed. What about 80 year old grandmothers with Alzheimer that can't even remember who they are? Are you going to boot them to the Alaskan Wilderness for not being American enough? What about some 90 year old man that lost his legs in WW2, but now has no memory, and can't take a test? Not American enough?
I think you have to be very careful when you are ready to exile anyone that fails a test. How we take care of our elderly and in-firmed is a measure of our morality.
On the other hand, I'm willing to brand and exile all multiple-felons that have had a felony in the last 20 years. Additionally, I'm willing to give all illegal immigrants a 2 month warning, and if they are still here by the end of that, they get branded and exiled.
Post by
367020
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Sounds like things in Boston got ugly last night:
http://occupyboston.com/2011/10/11/boston-police-brutally-assault-occupy-boston/
This is horribly inaccurate and biased. It makes it sound like the police beat women, veterans, and medics to a bloody pulp and used bulldozers to push their mangled corpses into a landfill.
Here
is a better article, by ABC. Apparently, someone got "pushed". That is unfortunate, but hardly newsworthy. The police warned the protesters for hours, even issuing leaflets, for them to move from the "greenway", whatever that is. They could go other places, but for some reason not there.
Heckler, it appears this wasn't a massive government crackdown on the Boston protesters, but just the protesters being stubborn and obtuse in the face of reasonable police requests, and then had to face some mind consequences, and are now screaming rape, murder, and the apocolypse. As soon as I saw that the article you linked was on the website for and written by the protesters themselves, I knew to go find an outside news source.
"Brutally Assualt" indeed.
Edit: Even look at the comments section of the article you linked. People are pointing out all the problems with the article.
Post by
gamerunknown
Not American enough?
Precisely. Because someone was born in a foreign country, they're deemed less worthy of citizenship than someone who was born in the US. This is in spite of the fact that some that are born in the US are absolutely incapable of speaking the English language (even if it was their mother tongue) or fulfilling any other standards as a citizen. The one argument against that position would be to take into account the amount of taxes they've paid and other services rendered and levy a similar charge for immigrants to the country.
But few people acknowledge the fact that any white Americans are recent immigrants to America themselves, immigrants that really did massacre the native population. Some of those white Americans call for deportation and nationalism as well as working into a hysteria that non-white people in the country could actually become a majority thirty years in the future (exactly as it was 500~ years ago)... Traditional values as long as they're modern imports of traditional European values, eh?
Post by
MyTie
But few people acknowledge the fact that any white Americans are recent immigrants to America themselves, immigrants that really did massacre the native population.
I remember when I came over on the mayflower, my uzi in hand, and sent that native population back into the ground so we could make way for good white Christians.
Seriously, the ad homenim stereotyping you threw out here is a bit sickening, and has very very little bearing on current immigration law, or OWS.
Post by
gamerunknown
Who am I stereotyping exactly? Apart from the white nationalists that don't recognise that America is only very recently a white nation?
The entire paragraph is factually accurate (well, recent is a relative term, but I think the Englightenment is still included as a "recent" period by historians). Any objective analysis of the history bears this out, with quotes about a civilisation program by the founding fathers to references to the Manifest Destiny of the White Man.
Edit: "I don't go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn't like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth."
Manifest Destiny.
Post by
Heckler
As soon as I saw that the article you linked was on the website for and written by the protesters themselves, I knew to go find an outside news source.
I actually agree with this, I went looking for other sources and couldn't find many -- it could be that google hadn't yet cached the day's news stories because it was sort of 'breaking,', I dunno. But thank you for the better link.
Who wins from an overblowing of proportions in a situation like that? I dunno, could go either way. Supporters will be outraged at even the thought of a suppression of free assembly, detractors will see more proof the OWS group is looking for 'trouble.' I would say its in the City's best interest to not give headlines like that a chance though -- seems like making a "special zone" for the protesters (as was done in NYC and others) is a better idea, so long as they're not hurting anyone.
When I choose to stand in "Spot X" and a police officer says "You can't stand in Spot X, go stand elsewhere" -- then I would have the tendancy to wonder why: what is the basis of the "No Standing on Spot X" rule? Presumably, it wasn't intentioned to suppress free assembly -- so if it's being abused to that end, maybe it should be ignored in this specific circumstance.
I remember when I came over on the mayflower, my uzi in hand, and sent that native population back into the ground so we could make way for good white Christians.
Seriously, the ad homenim stereotyping you threw out here is a bit sickening, and has very very little bearing on current immigration law, or OWS.
Your hyperbolic retort does a little of the same thing you're accusing him of. It's crazy to ignore the factual things he's speaking of... just because something happened before you were born doesn't automatically mean that you can just pretend it didn't happen. It also doesn't mean you can use it to characterize/generalize an entire group of people based on it -- but he didn't do that.
It's too off-topic for me to continue discussion on it, but it seems odd to take offense to a factual statement, and reply with meaningless hyperbole. There's certainly a debate to be had about the propriety of our "Born here? Good enough" 'test' for citizenship. Ask the "ZOMG ANCHOR BABY!" Tea baggers.
And here's an interesting article (written by Liberal Sam Stein):
Occupy Wall Street Gains Measured Support From Some Republican Candidates
It will be interesting to see if any of them embrace OWS in any way at the debate tonight. I have my doubts, lol.
Post by
Orranis
I don't particularly want to see Republicans or Democrats embracing it, well, not necessarily not embracing it, but trying to gravitate it towards their own party for their own agenda. The idea that it will become a 'Democratic Party Movement' is actually something that troubles me a lot.
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