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No More "Don't Ask Don't Tell"
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Post by
Jubilee
Your arguments up to this point have already assumed that these situations exist.
My arguments are not made from assumptions. I was in the military for 6 years, from 2000 to 2006. I knew of gay people in the military. I saw the situations it caused. You are assuming that my arguments are based on assumptions. Tsk tsk.
Are you just being coy? That reads like sarcasm, but you switch back and forth so much I never know. You provided a hypothetical scenario involving yourself. That scenario assumed that a certain a certain situation arose. If you don't want me to respond to hypothetical situations don't use them =P
Post by
Monday
You provided a hypothetical scenario involving yourself. That scenario assumed that a certain a certain situation arose. If you don't want me to respond to hypothetical situations don't use them =P
The story he just gave? That doesn't sound hypothetical to me.
Post by
Jubilee
You provided a hypothetical scenario involving yourself. That scenario assumed that a certain a certain situation arose. If you don't want me to respond to hypothetical situations don't use them =P
The story he just gave? That doesn't sound hypothetical to me.
The story he gave
after
my post he was replying to?
Post by
MyTie
Your arguments up to this point have already assumed that these situations exist.
My arguments are not made from assumptions. I was in the military for 6 years, from 2000 to 2006. I knew of gay people in the military. I saw the situations it caused. You are assuming that my arguments are based on assumptions. Tsk tsk.
Are you just being coy? That reads like sarcasm, but you switch back and forth so much I never know. You provided a hypothetical scenario involving yourself. That scenario assumed that a certain a certain situation arose. If you don't want me to respond to hypothetical situations don't use them =P
I showered with men, 6 at a time. We lined up outside the showers naked. That kind of event still goes on in basic training. Now, there is nothing to stop one of the guys to look around the shower, at the other 5 guys, and say "I'm gay", and stare at their naked bodied.
I never had that specific scenario, but I have encountered similar situations. I was just using that one as an example, because it stands an extremely high, if not inevitable likelihood of happening.
No, I'm not being 'coy'. I've only given two examples, one I said was hypothetical and one was real, so I don't know how you could say that "I switch back and forth so much". I don't mind if you respond to my hypothetical situations, but don't say that those situations are based entirely on 'assumptions'. Do we really need to find a gay man and a straight man in a military shower together in order to address the likely complications that would arise from that situation?
I'm not taking your side, and I'm not taking the opposing side. I will, however, ask that you at least acknowledge the validity of the other side. Simply dismissing them as "needing therapy" will do nothing toward winning you support.
Post by
Jubilee
It's so frustrating having you repeatedly misuse what I say. I never said anyone needs therapy.
Post by
Monday
It's so frustrating having you repeatedly misuse what I say. I never said anyone needs therapy.
What were you suggesting, then?
Post by
MyTie
It's so frustrating having you repeatedly misuse what I say. I never said anyone needs therapy.
So you SUGGEST therapy without thinking that they need it?I suggest therapy, but I'm not in a position to make that decisionEither way, it's not going to win you support.
Post by
Jubilee
I suggest you read The Phantom of the Opera by Gaston Leroux.
Is that anything other than a suggestion?
That is all up to you to read whatever you want. I suggest you read The Phantom of the Opera by Gaston Leroux, but I'm not in a position to know if that's something you'd want to read.
Isn't that all the more clearly just a suggestion?
If someone cannot cope with
anything
, I would suggest therapy. It's a great thing modern psychology has perfected, and I would probably be dead without it.
Post by
MyTie
I suggest you read The Phantom of the Opera by Gaston Leroux.
Is that anything other than a suggestion?
I suggest you try to see things from other people's points of view.
Post by
Jubilee
I suggest you read The Phantom of the Opera by Gaston Leroux.
Is that anything other than a suggestion?
I suggest you try to see things from other people's points of view.
What don't I see about the other people's points of view? They don't feel comfortable being naked around someone who might find them attractive. Seeing their point of view doesn't make me any less sure that the gay person shouldn't have excess regulations put on him that "normal" people don't have (DADT).
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
I suggest you read The Phantom of the Opera by Gaston Leroux.
Is that anything other than a suggestion?
I suggest you try to see things from other people's points of view.
What don't I see about the other people's points of view?
Don't twist my words around. I never said you don't see other people's points of view, I just suggested that you do.
Can't you see that all I made was a suggestion?
Post by
Jubilee
We're done here then?
This is the third debate with you to end like this. Obviously this is a trend, so I'll try to remember that there is no really point to debating with you the next time I want to get involved. It'll be better for both of us.
Post by
Monday
We're done here then?
This is the third debate with you to end like this. Obviously this is a trend, so I'll try to remember that there is no really point to debating with you the next time I want to get involved. It'll be better for both of us.
I think his point flew way over your head. It's incredibly sarcastic and made me chuckle a bit.
So either you didn't get it, or you don't like your argument being used against you.
Post by
MyTie
We're done here then?
This is the third debate with you to end like this. Obviously this is a trend, so I'll try to remember that there is no really point to debating with you the next time I want to get involved. It'll be better for both of us.
We are hardly debating the merits of this. Really, we haven't gotten very far at all. I just want to point out that there are logistical problems having gay and straight men in the military together. I think those issues need to be addressed realistically, and I don't think your suggestion is realistic. In fact, I think your suggestion is condescending. You don't allow me to make a condescending 'suggestion' that you see other peoples points of views because it implies that you need to, but when you make a condescending suggestion regarding therapy you excuse it as just a suggestion.
If you want to have a serious discussion, you'll find that I am receptive, and open to suggestions. If you make statements like "I suggest they get therapy", then you'll find a harsh opponent in me.
Post by
Jubilee
We're done here then?
This is the third debate with you to end like this. Obviously this is a trend, so I'll try to remember that there is no really point to debating with you the next time I want to get involved. It'll be better for both of us.
I think his point flew way over your head. It's incredibly sarcastic and made me chuckle a bit.
So either you didn't get it, or you don't like your argument being used against you.
I got that it was incredibly sarcastic, that's exactly why I'm done here. Every single debate I've been in against him has devolved into sarcasm.
For the record, suggesting that someone resolve a problem they are having in a certain way (my statement) is nothing like sarcastically suggesting that someone do something they are already doing (my "argument being used against me"). It's childish and accomplishes nothing, and considering that I had a problem with it that last two times he did it, I would expect that he would have some prudence the next time he wanted to do it.
Post by
Monday
Problem is, you looked like you weren't considering the other side at all. While you probably didn't mean it that way, you basically said: "You don't agree with my point? There's probably something wrong with you. I think you should get therapy."
Think about that for a moment, and you'll see why he, and to a lesser extent me, reacted like he did.
I also suggest you actually try and look like you're trying to understand the other side, and he really will debate seriously with you, instead of just reacting with sarcasm.
Post by
MyTie
Jubilee: I have stated in the past that I have earned a great deal of respect for you. I have said that I am willing to debate with you, and would very much enjoy partaking in future debates with you. I know that I don't always take the right position in a debate, and have learned quite a bit from the denzions of wowhead randomness. I would be honored to continue the discussion, and more in the future. On the same note, I would ask that you make a real and active effort to be sensitive to other people's points of view. I make this statement because in the past, I don't feel a real effort has been made. If you agree to this, then in exchange I will make a real effort to try and not read farther into your arguments than you would like.
Does this sound acceptable?
Post by
Dwarfiesgosquish
My personal code... Law... Thing... On serving with, under or commanding a person of the homosexual orientation, is that, if they do their job, what does it matter?
And on having to room/shower with a gay man, am I so vain to automatically assume that the person in question is actually attracted to me? And am I so condescending to think that they aren't mature enough to keep their hands to themselves, knowing that I, as a straight male, am not attracted to them?
Post by
MyTie
My personal code... Law... Thing... On serving with, under or commanding a person of the homosexual orientation, is that, if they do their job, what does it matter?
And on having to room/shower with a gay man, am I so vain to automatically assume that the person in question is actually attracted to me? And am I so condescending to think that they aren't mature enough to keep their hands to themselves, knowing that I, as a straight male, am not attracted to them?
Without the assumption that they would be attracted to other men, would it be unreasonable to see how that situation could arise. Further, is it to much to see how people could be made uncomfortable on that possibility?
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