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10.2.5
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10.2.6
A rant about my Birther, YEC, Zionist parents.
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Post by
292559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
All "Fundie" means, at least to me, is "Someone who puts religion at the heart of everything in their life and takes their holy text literally and as ultimate law."
"Homosexuality is an abomination."
"If you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to hell."
"God said it, I believe, and that settles it."
Are all statements I would attribute to a Fundamentalist. My parents don't so much believe the second (my Mom's a Universalist, possibly because of my deconversion), but they're pretty much dead on on the first and third. I remember watching V for Vendetta for the first time, and the sequence with Valeria and Ruth came on for the first time, and as it was playing, my mom said "Now remember kids, no matter how much Hollywood romanticizes it, what they're doing is an abomination."
Edit: Also, I appreciate your wanting to share.
Post by
Pwntiff
I once compared He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named to a Fundamentalist...
Also, WBC are not Christians.
Post by
Monday
All "Fundie" means, at least to me, is "Someone who puts religion at the heart of everything in their life and takes their holy text literally and as ultimate law."
For me it can be atheism though. Not necessarily the "holy text literally" thing, as you don't have any, but people who try and get rid of saying Merry Christmas or "In God we trust" and try and thrust it in your face every time they see you.
Like seriously, I wonder what would have happened if I made a thread saying I was annoyed with atheists who wouldn't stop pestering me.
Post by
Pwntiff
I'm neither for not against the removal of "In God We Trust." So long as the people who say are in favor of keeping it stop saying that a phrase we added in the Red Scare is a fundamental cornerstone of the country...
Post by
173035
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
I remember watching V for Vendetta for the first time, and the sequence with Valeria and Ruth came on for the first time, and as it was playing, my mom said "Now remember kids, no matter how much Hollywood romanticizes it, what they're doing is an abomination."
And that's why I went from thinking fundies were merely deranged and sad to actively disliking them. I sincerely hope all of your brothers and sisters are heterosexual (though in a family that size, chances are at least one of them isn't). I mean, really, the impact such a statement would have on a young lesbian/bi girl, coming from her own mother... I can't even imagine what that does to a person's mind.Oh, I'm sure. If any of them aren't heterosexuals, they don't show it. Either they got lucky and didn't up gay in my family, or they're repressing it so hard, they're going to need a squadron of therapists to sort themselves out.
I'm neither for not against the removal of "In God We Trust." So long as the people who say are in favor of keeping it stop saying that a phrase we added in the Red Scare is a fundamental cornerstone of the country...In God We Trust doesn't bother me that much. It's our national motto, yes, but it's really not that religious in practice.
It's "one nation, under God," that bothers me, mainly because I have to say the pledge
every day
in school. It wasn't even added until 1954 for heaven's sake! Because 50s Americans were afraid of Commies and wanted to unite "Christian America" against the "godless USSR!"
Post by
Pwntiff
Both "In God We Trust" and "One nation, under God" are really only as religious as you make it. And I know several Christians who aren't against "Happy Holidays" because even for Christians there are three holidays from November to January.
Post by
Squishalot
All "Fundie" means, at least to me, is "Someone who puts religion at the heart of everything in their life and takes their holy text literally and as ultimate law."
For me it can be atheism though. Not necessarily the "holy text literally" thing, as you don't have any, but people who try and get rid of saying Merry Christmas or "In God we trust" and try and thrust it in your face every time they see you.
This. And this was the point of me asking before what people think "Zionist" actually means. The core of Zionism is about the Jewish people, not general right-wing politics, and it seems that some people are papering over that fact in a rush to apply labels on people.
I remember watching V for Vendetta for the first time, and the sequence with Valeria and Ruth came on for the first time, and as it was playing, my mom said "Now remember kids, no matter how much Hollywood romanticizes it, what they're doing is an abomination."
I mean, really, the impact such a statement would have on a young lesbian/bi girl, coming from her own mother... I can't even imagine what that does to a person's mind.
I don't think that we need to be so completely politically correct to remind our kids that such things are acceptable. It's perfectly reasonable to tell them that things aren't socially acceptable, for example. There's nothing wrong with reinforcing some gender stereotypes, and if you do think it's wrong, then I worry for your daughters when you don't buy them any dresses, dolls or other pretty things.
Rather than use homosexuality as an example, consider sex before marriage. Would it have a huge psychological impact on a young boy/girl to have their parents condemn people who have sex before marriage? There's nothing wrong with teaching a moral code - just because their moral code is different to yours doesn't make theirs wrong.
Post by
324987
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
And this was the point of me asking before what people think "Zionist" actually means. The core of Zionism is about the Jewish people, not general right-wing politics, and it seems that some people are papering over that fact in a rush to apply labels on people.Trust me, my mother has taken Judaism and made it the core of her entire life. She didn't used to be this bad, but now she's in a Messianic Jewish club sort of thing, and that's what our entire existence has been about for the last few weeks. Learning Hebrew words, Hebrew letters, Hebrew prayers, Hebrew songs... reading the Torah, discussing Jewish/Christian theology, etc.
I don't think I've seen any of them do so much as a math problem in several months.
They may not be Jewish isolationist, but they're pretty insane about Judaism and Israel. The conflict in the Middle East is entirely the fault of the Muslims, after all.
Both "In God We Trust" and "One nation, under God" are really only as religious as you make it. And I know several Christians who aren't against "Happy Holidays" because even for Christians there are three holidays from November to January.But it makes me feel uncomfortable to have to say "America is under
God!
" every day. Whether not I
should
take it seriously seems kinda besides the point. I do take it seriously, because it is a pledge of loyalty that I'm forced to take. I already object enough to being
required
to pledge my eternal allegiance to America just because I live here, but it's straight up unpleasant to pledge my allegiance to the country under God.
Thank goodness I was allowed to affirm myself into the military without being required to say "So help me God."
Post by
Pwntiff
For me it can be atheism though. Not necessarily the "holy text literally" thing, as you don't have any, but people who try and get rid of saying Merry Christmas or "In God we trust" and try and thrust it in your face every time they see you.
This isn't a comparable situation because Atheists limiting religion in the government isn't equal to the government indoctrination of a certain religion. You could make this argument if the money was printed with in Atheist-ism we trust or if the slogan for Merry Christmas was Merry Christmas even though Christ doesn't exist. I don't specifically have a problem with that besides the pledge having "In God We Trust" in it but your example doesn't work.
You missed the point. He's talking about the hard-line atheists, who every chance the get yell to get anything resembling religion out of the government. Kind of like how Glenn Beck takes every chance he can to yell about Democrats destroying all of Creation.
Post by
324987
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
They may not be Jewish isolationist, but they're pretty insane about Judaism and Israel. The conflict in the Middle East is entirely the fault of the Muslims, after all.
Yeah, I wasn't referring to you, I was thinking of people like DoctorLore who were using "Zionist" out of context.
My point on the morals of telling your kid that lesbianism isn't right still stands though.
Post by
Skreeran
You missed the point. He's talking about the hard-line atheists, who every chance the get yell to get anything resembling religion out of the government. Kind of like how Glenn Beck takes every chance he can to yell about Democrats destroying all of Creation. No I didn't the points aren't the same, one point is limiting all religion in government while the other is promoting one religion.I think the answer, like many things, is compromise.
I take the ruling that the National Day of Prayer as a victory, because I don't think it's right that the President, who represents all people of the United States, no matter what religion, so sponsor an event that by definition excludes good, honest, taxpaying citizens.
On the other hand, I don't get my drawers in a bunch over "In God We Trust" being printed on money, because it's more passive than active, and it's really not affecting me.
They may not be Jewish isolationist, but they're pretty insane about Judaism and Israel. The conflict in the Middle East is entirely the fault of the Muslims, after all.
Yeah, I wasn't referring to you, I was thinking of people like DoctorLore who were using "Zionist" out of context.
My point on the morals of telling your kid that lesbianism isn't right still stands though.Eh, I still don't think it was right what she said. Imagine if she had said "Remember kids, not having a penis means that you are inferior as a person."
Whether or not it's within her right to believe that, it's damaging to a child's self esteem, and I don't think it's morally right to do.
Post by
Monday
You missed the point. He's talking about the hard-line atheists, who every chance the get yell to get anything resembling religion out of the government. Kind of like how Glenn Beck takes every chance he can to yell about Democrats destroying all of Creation. No I didn't the points aren't the same, one point is limiting all religion in government while the other is promoting one religion.
Fail. I used my example exactly how Pwntiff said I did. It was to illustrate how stupid I find atheists who try and remove every point of religion from public life.
Also, Merry Christmas isn't a government phrase, but atheists try and stop public stores from using it.
Post by
Pwntiff
You missed the point. He's talking about the hard-line atheists, who every chance the get yell to get anything resembling religion out of the government. Kind of like how Glenn Beck takes every chance he can to yell about Democrats destroying all of Creation. No I didn't the points aren't the same, one point is limiting all religion in government while the other is promoting one religion.
In one sense they are. They are both trying to change something mostly irrelevant about the government. Funden was talking about how his definition of "Fundamentalist" can include "Fundamentalist Atheists" which would basically be atheists who say that religion is the definitive cause of what's wrong in America. Like Fundamentalist Christians saying godlessness is the definitive cause of what's wrong in America.
One of my friends has a very good stance on religion. He doesn't believe and won't be drawn into a debate about it because you can't debate something that isn't founded in rational thought.
Post by
Squishalot
Whether or not it's within her right to believe that, it's damaging to a child's self esteem, and I don't think it's morally right to do.
So should we wrap up our children in cotton wool because what we say might be damaging to their self esteem? Will being told that sex before marriage (edit: is bad) hurt their self esteem more than getting f***ed over and left for dirt by her first 'boyfriend'?
I don't believe there's a right answer to this, but if you can answer it one way or another, it's probably wrong.
Edit:
One of my friends has a very good stance on religion. He doesn't believe and won't be drawn into a debate about it because you can't debate something that isn't founded in rational thought.
That stance in itself isn't founded in rational thought.
Post by
Skreeran
Whether or not it's within her right to believe that, it's damaging to a child's self esteem, and I don't think it's morally right to do.
So should we wrap up our children in cotton wool because what we say might be damaging to their self esteem? Will being told that sex before marriage hurt their self esteem more than getting f***ed over and left for dirt by her first 'boyfriend'?
I don't believe there's a right answer to this, but if you can answer it one way or another, it's probably wrong.There's a difference between simply damaging a child's self esteem and telling them they are worthless as a person.
Post by
Squishalot
Whether or not it's within her right to believe that, it's damaging to a child's self esteem, and I don't think it's morally right to do.
There's a difference between simply damaging a child's self esteem and telling them they are worthless as a person.
Would you care to rephrase then? And being told that you're worthless is an attack on your self esteem. If not, then how does it differ?
I think you're scrounging for a distinction that doesn't exist. The main issue that you have is that they're teaching morals that you don't agree with, clear and simple.
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