This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Guide to 4.2.0 Cataclysm Holy Paladins
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
svirve
DP haterz, L2P.
I use DP several times during a raid night, there are several transitions that allow DP also a bunch of encounters that give you a few seconds of ease which allows you to DP.
Not having it on your bar is just utter fail, just ragequit already.
Even if you're not comfortable with using it during fights you should at the least use it in between.
Having your group wait for you to sit down and drink when you could've just as easily popped DP for that next trash pack is just rude.
Since we're gonna have a nerdrage if i don't list exactly when to use it, here you go let me play the game for you:
BWD
Magmaw: Use it when his head is stuck on the pole, no incoming damage during this phase.
Omnotron Defense System: If your DPS isn't crap Electron and Toxitron are generally low damage, not necessary during Arcanotron since he has the Power Generator.
Maloriak: If your group isn't generally low on health, when he goes to throw in his flasks is a good few seconds for DP to tick once or twice.
Atramedes: If your raid is really good and doesn't get hit by Sonar Pulse you'll have plenty of time to use DP in between Searing Flame.
Chimaeron: Don't
Nefarian: Havn't done more than a few tries so can't say.
TBT
Halfus: Only in rare cases when you get a really good combo for the drakes. Slate/Time/Storm is a good combo with low raid damage.
Theralion and Valiona: Some times when Theralion is on the ground I've found windows of 5-8 secons proper for DP.
Ascendant Council: Don't
Cho'gall: Generally don't, if however you're totally stretched for mana, the P2 transition is probably the only time.
TofFW
Conclave of Wind: Use it when jumping, during Anshal's zephyr, basically just abuse it.
Al'akir: P3 Transition is probably the only time and maybe the best time in all of the encounters. 5-8 seconds of being tossed around unable to act, and then another 3-5 seconds flying down to the bottom.
P.S.
Using DP made sure we downed Al'Akir last night.
Post by
570658
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Flonnette
A side topic: Guardian of Ancient Kings really needs to be a N second (30 seconds? 12 seconds is too few heals) effect instead of "mimic your next 5 heals". And I'd rather have GAK for Holy do an extra large shield as a mimic instead of echo a heal.
Post by
pezz
DP haterz, L2P.
I use DP several times during a raid night, there are several transitions that allow DP also a bunch of encounters that give you a few seconds of ease which allows you to DP.
Not that you
can't
use it, but honestly, have you find yourself needing it svirve?
I hit 19700 spirit the other night on Chimaeron when our shaman popped Mana Tide and I
popped my
trinkets
. I know MT is getting nerfed in .0.6 but honestly, I'm 4/12 and I've had experience with another two and I haven't found a single fight that severely challenged my mana yet.
Since I heard conviction only effects self-heals I've specced into Denounce and honestly even spamming Exo I don't have mana problems.
Post by
Flonnette
I've personally found Divine Plea kind of a paradox. If things are going well and as planned, you never need to plan or want to use Divine Plea. If things suddenly go wrong, in an emergency the last thing you do is use Divine Plea. Beyond the obvious 'no one is being attacked' breather moments in some fights, I can ever seem to justify the use of Divine Plea.
Post by
svirve
Not that you
can't
use it, but honestly, have you find yourself needing it svirve?
I hit 19700 spirit the other night on Chimaeron when our shaman popped Mana Tide and I
popped my
trinkets
. I know MT is getting nerfed in .0.6 but honestly, I'm 4/12 and I've had experience with another two and I haven't found a single fight that severely challenged my mana yet.
Since I heard conviction only effects self-heals I've specced into Denounce and honestly even spamming Exo I don't have mana problems.
If we can use it why not? Why take the risk of needing that extra mana when you by the click of a button could've had it.
And as I said, we downed Al'Akir the other night pretty much thanks to me using DP during P3 transition.
I was mostly arguing against people like ninjaredeemer who by pure stubbornness refuse to even put it on his bars. And also anyone else refusing to see it's usefulness because of the MS effect.
The only difference between WotLK DP and Cata DP is that now you have to be more careful since our mana pools aren't endless. Basically it takes more skill, which was what blizzard intended for this whole expansion.
P.S.
Even if you manage to pop it at an awkward time just use a cancelaura macro and there is no harm done.
Post by
292580
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Xiamaru
Good point, I think the reasoning behind it is that we have other ways through Seal of Insight to gain mana, where as resto druids don't (I believe). Resto Shammy's do have water shield though =\. Atleast we're not priest.
Sorry, but Druids have
several
ways
to regenerate/keep
their mana. Not to mention the sheer amount of talents they have that allow them to refresh/apply different healing effects, free of charge. Paladins are having the worst time of them all, because their options are Judgement and melee when Seal of Insight is applied, and Divine Plea. Also note that Druids Revitalize is a double mana regen, as it applies 2 regens at once. Granted, this buff isn't exclusive to them, and could very possibly be present anyway. Again, not something you should rely on, unless the buff is something you yourself provide, or in case of the group being a fixed one.
I was mostly arguing against people like ninjaredeemer who by pure stubbornness refuse to even put it on his bars. And also anyone else refusing to see it's usefulness because of the MS effect.
Not exactly pure stubbornness :P If it is never used, why let it stay on the bar? If I use it once every dungeon/heroic, because the fight is over, and I happen to have about 50 % mana, is it really worth it having it on the toolbar? No. Then again, I am not raiding, and when I do, it'll probably get a space somewhere, just in case it will be needed. Too bad my server is full of disorganised guilds who never show up to their own raids >_> kinda laming having tried 4 guilds, and not even the raid leaders showed up on time.
Post by
svirve
DP obviously has its
useless
,
No that would be you. And don't be a hypocrit.
About Divine Plea, normally if it is needed
I use Lay on Hands
because it isn't effected by Divine Plea's MS effect. Also, it works out well if you have
Charred Glyph
because its accomplishing even more regen
Cuz dats no waestin!
Who said anything about judging it by how it saves a drink?
It's a good use of the spell and not doing so is rude is what I said, comprehending is HARD!
Surprised you didn't notice the list of every good opportunity to use it in current raids.
Not exactly pure stubbornness :P If it is never used, why let it stay on the bar? If I use it once every dungeon/heroic, because the fight is over, and I happen to have about 50 % mana, is it really worth it having it on the toolbar? No. Then again, I am not raiding, and when I do, it'll probably get a space somewhere, just in case it will be needed. Too bad my server is full of disorganised guilds who never show up to their own raids >_> kinda laming having tried 4 guilds, and not even the raid leaders showed up on time.
Why not use it then? Why not put it on the bar and actually use it?
You obviously know you're gonna need it in raiding, why not make a habit of using it during heroics?
Post by
hawke
I'm with svirve on this one. Mine is on my bar, but it's REALLY situational. For exemple, I use it when I go from Nezir to An'shal, or when Magmaw is impaled, or even on Halfus, when one or two dragons are down and and they were the AoE one.
Beside that tho, I rarely use it, and I really consider the skill to be stupid. I mean, the mana it regen is stupid (10% total, but 10k on 100k is what... one spell ? And I gotta wait the full 12 seconds to get it back). I really hope they improve it , but then again, we have less mana issue than the other healers, so I would doubt it.
Post by
Laru
I find myself comfortable using the DP+AW combo, it leaves me with 10% extra mana and it only nerfs my healing by a 30%, wich is aceptable , just toss some HL and get some daybreak procs, don't do this on heavy aoe phases.
If i don't have a shaman on my raid i just burn DP+AW+Core of ripeness (i use the 1926spi on the trinket with mana tide totem) every 2 minutes.
You can use it 2 or 3 times on every raid encounter , sum it to 10% from LOH and a mana potion and you can spam more heals to get more e-pen / heal more and better.
Post by
hawke
Now, I'm not a pro on math, but when comparing percentage, I'm not sure you just say "well, I offset my 50% healing by popping a 20% CD and it give me 30%" ..
How should I say this. You normally heal for 10k. You use DP , so now you heal for 5k. You pop AW. You add 20% healing done (so, to your 5k), you now heal for 6k (20% of 5k being 1k). There is still a gap of 40% between your former heal and your current heal. Wich would mean AW only add up 10%, wich, IMO, is a big cooldown waste.
I'm not a pro at math in any means (I suck at it in fact), I was just kind of wondering if my calculs were right or if I'm just being n00b, but I never tough it was 30% :(, and I would like to know if I was wrong or not. Isnt it ((y2 - y1) / y1)*100 for percentage calculation ?
Post by
Flonnette
Am I missing a factor with Divine Plea as compared to other mana regen cool down abilities like Innervate and the even nerfed Mana Tide? At this point I wonder what is the point of the -50% Healing factor where it would be better balanced if it had a 10 minute cool down instead.
Post by
svirve
Am I missing a factor with Divine Plea as compared to other mana regen cool down abilities like Innervate and the even nerfed Mana Tide? At this point I wonder what is the point of the -50% Healing factor where it would be better balanced if it had a 10 minute cool down instead.
This isn't vanilla there's more than 1 paladin spec.
3 extra HoPo on a 10 minute cooldown which is intended to boost tankadin burst threat is kinda dumb dontyathink?
Post by
Flonnette
Am I missing a factor with Divine Plea as compared to other mana regen cool down abilities like Innervate and the even nerfed Mana Tide? At this point I wonder what is the point of the -50% Healing factor where it would be better balanced if it had a 10 minute cool down instead.
This isn't vanilla there's more than 1 paladin spec.
3 extra HoPo on a 10 minute cooldown which is intended to boost tankadin burst threat is kinda dumb dontyathink?
You are the first I've come across in post 4.0 to suggest Prot Paladins need Divine Plea to work like this to function or that mana while tanking, even in extended fights, is an issue. You are also the first I've come across to suggest that a Prot Paladin needs (more?) burst threat and the way to gain it is Divine Plea.
Post by
288048
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
You are the first I've come across in post 4.0 to suggest Prot Paladins need Divine Plea to work like this to function or that mana while tanking, even in extended fights, is an issue. You are also the first I've come across to suggest that a Prot Paladin needs (more?) burst threat and the way to gain it is Divine Plea.
Psst. He's talking about holy.
Post by
Flonnette
This is the first time I've heard that Divine Plea is necessary for Prot Paladins to boost threat let alone that Prot Paladins need to boost their snap agro. In fact, all we have to do is wander a few posts over to see a thread questioning if Blizzard really meant what they said about how they want tanks "to work for agro" because it seems really easy to them.
What I am really suggesting Divine Plea is out of alignment with other effects because its doing too much. Another way to look at it, why doesn't
Shield of the Templar
just give 3 Holy Power when a Prot Paladin activates
Avenging Wrath
or
?
Post by
svirve
You are the first I've come across in post 4.0 to suggest Prot Paladins need Divine Plea to work like this to function or that mana while tanking, even in extended fights, is an issue. You are also the first I've come across to suggest that a Prot Paladin needs (more?) burst threat and the way to gain it is Divine Plea.
Please show me were in my post i mention mana. It's not even remotely in the post.
So because blizzard designed the ability to be used for extra burst threat, I'm bad cause I pointed that out to you?
Get a clue.
This is the first time I've heard that Divine Plea is necessary for Prot Paladins to boost threat let alone that Prot Paladins need to boost their snap agro. In fact, all we have to do is wander a few posts over to see a thread questioning if Blizzard really meant what they said about how they want tanks "to work for agro" because it seems really easy to them.
What I am really suggesting Divine Plea is out of alignment with other effects because its doing too much. Another way to look at it, why doesn't
Shield of the Templar
just give 3 Holy Power when a Prot Paladin activates
Avenging Wrath
or
?
My god are you awful at comprehending the written language.
I never said DP was necessary, I never said prot paladins need to boost their snap aggro. I never said aggro is hard.
No one has actually said anything that you claim we/me have said.
So either you've misunderstood three full posts, or you're just too stupid to understand.
Post by
Flonnette
You seem to have the problem as well....
I wrote:
Am I missing a factor with Divine Plea as compared to other mana regen cool down abilities like Innervate and the even nerfed Mana Tide? At this point I wonder what is the point of the -50% Healing factor where it would be better balanced if it had a 10 minute cool down instead.
In the context of Innervate and Mana Tide Totem being free of negatives beyond a cool down. I was asking what are the factors that necessitate such a heavy cost a Holy Paladin to use this. You came into the comment at this point writing:
This isn't vanilla there's more than 1 paladin spec.
3 extra HoPo on a 10 minute cooldown which is intended to boost tankadin burst threat is kinda dumb dontyathink?
So following that line of thinking what I ask what does the Prot Paladin wants? Is it regen mana or the 3 Holy Power? I think we both know the answer where to make the point I opine that this was the first time I've ever seen any Prot Paladins they need the mana regen or snap agro by 3 Holy Power attacks. Sorry for the rhetoric where I should have just been direct to avoid confusion.
As it works today, Divine Plea is low in priority in cool down rotation for Holy Paladins. Even with the up coming changes, it still seems at best tricky to use if not still harsh compared to other effects. Suggesting we need preserve the "trickiness" just because its folded into Prot or Ret benefits effects deep in their trees might be fine but they have to be justified.
Or another way to think about it: "Gain 3 Holy Power" is useful but does it demand offset cost of "-50% Healing" for another? Gaining 3 Holy Power instantly isn't a bad effect but it also isn't that powerful or radical let alone questioning why it tied to Divine Plea at all. Hopefully that is straightforward enough to avoid confusion.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.