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How Blizz could develop such weak BM Tree?
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Post by
Fulgurah
To elaborate:
Most boss fights have a lot of components to them. While the easiest to know is simply boss health, there are always different mechanics to ensure that every fight isn't Patchwerk (ie, tank and spank). The most obvious, of course, are enrage timers. This will make sure if you don't have enough DPS, your raid will pretty much instantly wipe. A lot of bosses in BWD and Bastion have either hard or soft enrage timers: either the boss will flat out kill you or there will be some mechanic important to the fight that you simply will not be able to use after a certain point (think Atramedes).
Insufficient DPS will cause "enrages" on the following fights: Halfus, Maloriak, Chimaeron (he'll simply be able to kill everyone before he dies through his p2 mechanic), Atramedes, Al'Akir, Elemental Council, Cho'gall and Nefarian. Nearly every other fight also has mechanics that either severely stress healer mana if the fight drags on or is simply an easy boss (Magmaw, Omnotron, and Conclave are all very simplistic).
The job of all DPS in a raid is to kill the boss as quickly as possible so that (1) the raid doesn't wipe to an enrage, (2) the healers are able to keep people alive by not going OOM, (3) other mechanics don't slowly pick people off one at a time until the raid wipes.
For almost all progression content, there is simply no such thing as "over-kill." You will be pushing the limits of enrage timers on nearly all of your first kill of bosses in this expansion, particularly on heroic modes. When top guilds like Paragon and Ensidia go to the absolute limits of enrages, you can bet everyone else will be as well when they get there.
So, my question is simply: If a DPS is willfully not doing his job by ensuring that the boss dies as quickly as possible, what in the world is the point of bringing that person to the raid? I'm going to guess you haven't raided in any sort of progression raid of any sort lately Gnorf or you're simply trolling, because your concept of what a DPS is supposed to do is severely flawed.
Post by
355869
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Fulgurah
It can't be "over-kill." You did more damage, more DPS. The boss still had the same amount of health. How is it over-kill that you did more damage?
Also, I did 21k damage in 25 Argaloth (which your SS was taken) as Survival. My first week (the first week of Cata) I did about 17k with gear the same as yours. 17k to 14k is a huge difference, and every single point of that DPS was needed due to how badly ungeared we are were.
Yes, your one empirical example is not 40%. But fully raid-buffed with the appropriate buffs and debuffs, it's damn close to that amount.
Post by
Xiamaru
I... I'm at a loss for words. Lol. Simply, lol... You win Gnorf, you managed to put together a logic so incomprehensible and senseless it couldn't possibly be understood by anyone below your level of logic. I had something I wanted to say, but as Asakawa said, this is going in circles. Argueing against these people is futile.
That's okay. From the tone of your post, I assume you wouldn't be arguing in good faith, anyway.
Nevertheless, the concept of overkill is pretty easy to understand. The phrase "padding the meter" shouldn't be completely unfamiliar to you, either. How about "overgearing the instance"?
Bizarre as it may seem, when the boss dies, that means the raid had "enough DPS".
Is it possible to have "more than enough DPS?" Sure! Which is why, after a boss dies, and just before "Miller Time", it's customary in many realms to post the Recount, and compare epeens.
This is what I mean by "personal glory". (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)
You... surprise me. Honestly. I'll bite, anyway.
You don't "have enough dps" when the boss dies. You make it sound as if the whole raid is made up by dps, and no other. And another amazing flaw in your horrendous logic, is the fact that
the boss doesn't nessesarily go down at all
.
First off: the 15 % more damage doesn't mean 15 % overkill. It means the boss dies 15 % faster. How you even thought of overkill, is beyond me.
This means healers need less mana in order for the kill to be succesful. This means there are room for more mistakes, as the healer would be capable of using high-cost heals with less concern. It also helps the tank out a great deal, albeit the way it helps him out, in the end only helps the healer.
You make it sound as if all you need, is dps high enough to kill the guy before he enrages. If that's the tactics the raids you join usually follow, let me ask this: How often does that actually work? I mean raids were you all have only the bare minimum of dps?
To be quite honest, you sound more like you try to make up for the fact that you always hit the bottom of the charts on the dps-meters.
As for the whole Recount thing: I only use Recount when I tank or dps, to allow me knowledge about how well I played. If I see a sudden increase in damage, I reflect on the dungeon, and check the charts, to see which abilities had an impact on the damage. This allows me to improve. If I had no idea what my damage per second is, any change in priority or rotation could quite easily mean a decrease in dps, IE performance. Knowing what I did wrong or right is vital to my style of playing. I prefer that to the pure EJ reading. When I group with friends, I use it to help them, and they apprieciate it. I can't even describe how much I hate people who post recount after every fight, only to boast their highest dps - when in fact, their damage done is less than half of the other dps.
Post by
HoleofArt
This again? Really?
Stupid logic and strawman arguments abound!
Post by
355869
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Xiamaru
It can't be "over-kill." You did more damage, more DPS. The boss still had the same amount of health. How is it over-kill that you did more damage?
We were
over
the DPS requirement to
kill
the boss.
See this for an example
.
Dps requirement? Lol? Did you even read my post?
Can't believe I waste time writing a reply to an obvious troll.
Post by
355869
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
355869
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
I think I'm losing IQ from reading this thread.
Post by
286144
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
I wish I could lock threads. I really do.
Post by
Xiamaru
Reported.. this makes no sense to continue, at all.
Gnorf is an obvious troll. Anyone with at least a little bit of common sense, would realise the idea in doing additional dps. But maybe he isn't trolling. Maybe he is just the new generation of dps-folk who believes that, as long as the raid was succesful,
he pulled his weight well enough
. The only reason I even try to call him a troll, is because he first goes on about how the dps-meters are there for nothing but "personal-glory", and then goes on to post an edited screencap of him having top-dps. True, it might be possible that he was, indeed, at the top of the charts, but it still goes directly against his previous claims. Still doesn't prove that Beast Mastery isn't bad - for all we know, the rest of the raid could suck a great deal, and have no idea how to play their class. Being at the top of the charts mean little - it's how you perform on an overall scale that matters.
Those are the cancerous people that are destroying the Heroic runs at the moment. Believing they have sufficient fire-power to kill the boss, and if it fails,
it must obviously be the tank or the healer who are simply too undergeared/noobish to pull it through
<- IE: Playing the blame-game on others, 100 % certain they aren't the cause, regardless of how bad their dps is.
Post by
757306
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
Your
a troll.
source
pots, kettles, the whole kitchen apparently.
Post by
757306
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
/smile
Post by
355869
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
matheus314
I just want to make sure that I'm not mistaken by anyone here.
To elaborate:
Most boss fights have a lot of components to them. While the easiest to know is simply boss health, there are always different mechanics to ensure that every fight isn't Patchwerk (ie, tank and spank). The most obvious, of course, are enrage timers. This will make sure if you don't have enough DPS, your raid will pretty much instantly wipe. A lot of bosses in BWD and Bastion have either hard or soft enrage timers: either the boss will flat out kill you or there will be some mechanic important to the fight that you simply will not be able to use after a certain point (think Atramedes).
Insufficient DPS will cause "enrages" on the following fights: Halfus, Maloriak, Chimaeron (he'll simply be able to kill everyone before he dies through his p2 mechanic), Atramedes, Al'Akir, Elemental Council, Cho'gall and Nefarian. Nearly every other fight also has mechanics that either severely stress healer mana if the fight drags on or is simply an easy boss (Magmaw, Omnotron, and Conclave are all very simplistic).
The job of all DPS in a raid is to kill the boss as quickly as possible so that (1) the raid doesn't wipe to an enrage, (2) the healers are able to keep people alive by not going OOM, (3) other mechanics don't slowly pick people off one at a time until the raid wipes.
For almost all progression content, there is simply no such thing as "over-kill." You will be pushing the limits of enrage timers on nearly all of your first kill of bosses in this expansion, particularly on heroic modes. When top guilds like Paragon and Ensidia go to the absolute limits of enrages, you can bet everyone else will be as well when they get there.
So, my question is simply: If a DPS is willfully not doing his job by ensuring that the boss dies as quickly as possible, what in the world is the point of bringing that person to the raid? I'm going to guess you haven't raided in any sort of progression raid of any sort lately Gnorf or you're simply trolling, because your concept of what a DPS is supposed to do is severely flawed.
This is, probably, the best post here. Explain just plain and straight how raids must be done. And I agree completely with it, making just one little addition:
World of Warcraft is not a perfect world. Like the real world, people that play must respect the Normal distribution.
With that I mean, imagine a raid of 25 players, 5 are great experienced players, and 5 are totally new to raids. the other 15 are a mix of it, and can be labeled as "not bad" players.
How the 5 experienced players will react WILL change completely how the raid goes
And how the 5 newbies will react will change too, but not as near as the experienced ones.
The "not bad" players will ensure the raid will work, just that.
You just have to remember that, once, the experienced great players where newbies too, and experience has to come from somewhere.
That said, there still are the "bad players" that must be avoided, but that has absolutely nothing to do with being experienced or not.
That was my point.
Post by
Interest
Well since you love linking people, how about i link your little bit of
cyber bullying
?
Considering I've been telling the Wowhead team to enforce against that for ages and there's been little response to the contrary (Quote: "), you can't expect much.
Also....wtf @ your post history?
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