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10.2.7
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10.2.6
Beta
4.0.1: DPS Warriors Dissapear?
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Post by
septimx
6k gs arms should be doing 7 to 9k on dummy(depending on gear load out of course, even more damage)... proper rotation, priorities and rage management factored in....
i think ARMs have it easy, needing only 8% HIT for 0 miss on level 83s.... (correct me if am wrong)
then reforge most items for added haste or Mastery bonus...
i like to have a big Rage bar on top of my buttons so that i know when i am above 55 rage, hit Heroic strike. fury warrior with herkumi and mark of supremacy as trinkets doing 7 to 8k on dummy.
the addon Enraged works for us Fury warriors, don't know if it will work for Arms too...
play around with your gear, and reforge reforge...
Post by
pak52b
Well, since the hotfix, I've been doing better dps than i was pre 4.01. Our rotation has gotten much simpler and HS / execute hit like trains.
The disadvantage that I noticed is enormous threat problems. It might be because I only managed to test in pugs and not yet a guild run, but was pretty much sitting at 15k TPS with spikes higher than that at times (heroism / death wish + haste pot / etc).
IMHO, we have been overbuffed.
Post by
78077
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pak52b
pulled aggro instantly and find myself squished to the floor.
I know that it's not a DPS increasing talent, but, that's why I skilled 2/2 Die by the Sword... ^^
Post by
567203
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
168437
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pak52b
it's been on for quite a bit... since the blue post came out saying that they hotfixed damage.. that was a few days before they posted the numbers...
i dunno.. it IS a noticable change.. and a VERY noticable one at that.
if you can't do decent damage now, youre either fighting in greens, or doing something wrong.. ;)
Post by
168437
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pak52b
No, I don't see this particular change
Bloodsurge now also makes Slam free to cast.
Again, playing on EU.
tbh, i havent seen that one either now that you mention it...
Post by
masti
those are beta changes.
Post by
102871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
masti
I see people talking about ''precision'' 3% hit HIT cap for fury 27% (24 + 3 from precision)
for ARMS only 8%, mouse over the HIT, if you see 0 miss, you're good.
expertise always pegged at 26
Precision.....! where ...!
Its a base talent for fury, you get it when you spec into fury just as Bloodthirst and Dual wielding.
Look at the talent tree and press view summaries.
Post by
GaeBolge
The problem isn't that your loosing DPS, we all do so much dps that we wont really loose much at all. Its that the melee dps in general has become so goddamn face roll. Iv raided as arms, prot, and fury, and as both DPS specs I can pull 9-11kdps easymode, fury I swear I could do whacking off its so easy now. There removing armor pen cause it was just flat out a difficult, and overly powerful stat, and they didn't like how reliant the players have gotten on it (My personal opinion) because even pallies that DO NOT use armor pen are crying about it. Any warr can do 9k dps on average with out a problem, now well do 8kdps for a month or 2. whoopee friggin do.
Welcome to vanilla wow 2.0! Where stuff actually requires you to do stuff!
Would you mind linking your armory and telling me your rotation, then? I was doing between 7 and 8k before; now, staying over 5 is a struggle. Granted, I'd been relying heavily on ArP, but switching all of that to Str barely helped at all. I'm also having major problems with rage starvation. Maybe its just me, but right now, I feel like fury has been nerfed as badly or worse than it was with 3.1 (when they neutered Titan's Grip).
Sorry I don't religiously check these posts>.< The rotation has changed now with the addition of certain new skills that you gain at 81, 83, and next 85. For arms its mostly the same, things have a "Priority list" that you try to follow as much as you can.
-Arms-
MS > Colossus Smash > overpower - with Heroic Strikes timed with any of the above 3. Keep rend up at all times and you can overpower quite constantly. During the final bit of a boss spam Execute, but use MS and Colossus Smash to keep the enrage effect and armor bypass up. Also, Inner Rage is wonderful if you use it in conjunction with Unleashed Fury, and if you throw 2 points into the prot tree, you can use Thunderclap to spread rend to aoe targets and refresh it. Bladestorm and Sweeping Strikes are purely for AoE.
-Protection-
I just charge, rend, thunderclap to get rends up. Use devastate to keep sunders up, and in order of priority Shield Slap>revenge ANYTIME They are available. Shockwave is great with 2+charges of thunerstruck for threat, damage, and sometimes stunning mobs is just wonderful. I try to save heroic throw for the silence effect being prot adds to it, to get ranged mobs to come to me. Please keep in mind, if your with people of similar or higher gear, they WILL need to give you 5seconds for aggro. Especially on large groups of mobs. If they don't let them know they will have to expect to die.
I have dropped fury almost completely as I don't enjoy it too much, but I have a guildy that does it religiously. I'll ask him the current rotation it has changed a lot as well.
Post by
GaeBolge
OK now due to reading on and seeing all the hit cap posts.... WHY do you all worry about the hard cap? The hard cap is for WHITE DAMAGE ONLY! That white damage does NOT matter enough, and will NEVER matter enough, to worry about the cap for it. Get 8% for arms or 9% for fury (since Fury has the 3% hit buff you will have 12%) and you are FINE for hit. Get 20 expertise for the expertise soft cap (you should always be behind a skull mob so that is the cap for melee DPS) and then stack strength. or agi if your a rogue. But for the love of all things in the blue blazing hell, ignore the hard cap ANYTHING from this point on. Warriors are now responcible for managing our rage. If you are hit capped and expertise capped, get some haste in there and you'll hit faster, and at this point you just manage your rage. But if you constantly burn your rage like an idiot trying to faceroll, nothing can help you.
P.S. you would be surprised how rarely you miss white damage with just the soft cap for special attacks. Again, your rage will not be an issue, unless you are bad because we have to actually manage our rage now.
Post by
Rubendesmet619
OK now due to reading on and seeing all the hit cap posts.... WHY do you all worry about the hard cap? The hard cap is for WHITE DAMAGE ONLY! That white damage does NOT matter enough, and will NEVER matter enough, to worry about the cap for it. Get 8% for arms or 9% for fury (since Fury has the 3% hit buff you will have 12%) and you are FINE for hit. Get 20 expertise for the expertise soft cap (you should always be behind a skull mob so that is the cap for melee DPS) and then stack strength. or agi if your a rogue. But for the love of all things in the blue blazing hell, ignore the hard cap ANYTHING from this point on. Warriors are now responcible for managing our rage. If you are hit capped and expertise capped, get some haste in there and you'll hit faster, and at this point you just manage your rage. But if you constantly burn your rage like an idiot trying to faceroll, nothing can help you.
P.S. you would be surprised how rarely you miss white damage with just the soft cap for special attacks. Again, your rage will not be an issue, unless you are bad because we have to actually manage our rage now.
Thanks for pointing out you have no idea what you're talking about.
Now keep quite and let the people who know their stuff talk.
I mean, who you think people trust more? A ranting person with 0 numbers to support his claim, calling others idiots, or elitistjerks?
I go with the second thank you.
Post by
masti
OK now due to reading on and seeing all the hit cap posts.... WHY do you all worry about the hard cap? The hard cap is for WHITE DAMAGE ONLY! That white damage does NOT matter enough, and will NEVER matter enough, to worry about the cap for it. Get 8% for arms or 9% for fury (since Fury has the 3% hit buff you will have 12%) and you are FINE for hit. Get 20 expertise for the expertise soft cap (you should always be behind a skull mob so that is the cap for melee DPS) and then stack strength. or agi if your a rogue. But for the love of all things in the blue blazing hell, ignore the hard cap ANYTHING from this point on. Warriors are now responcible for managing our rage. If you are hit capped and expertise capped, get some haste in there and you'll hit faster, and at this point you just manage your rage. But if you constantly burn your rage like an idiot trying to faceroll, nothing can help you.
P.S. you would be surprised how rarely you miss white damage with just the soft cap for special attacks. Again, your rage will not be an issue, unless you are bad because we have to actually manage our rage now.
Expertise cap is back to 26 at 85, it has never been 20.
Yes imagine the damage you can do while managing your rage and just beeing softcapped, now think how much more you'll do when you have a steady income of rage and your 10k white hits lands more often.
How rarely you miss while being soft hit capped, i would guess about not so rarely if you do a quick fight, very often if you do a 6 min fight, about 22%.
Hard cap is not about being viable, its about being optimal in that spec, if you want to be mediocre, then sure stay at the softcap, if you want to see how the class works at its best, then get as much hit as possible, hardcap is kind of out of the question during the first tier of the new content, 18% is more reasonable without sacrificing strength.
8% for arms is arms hardcap, so comparing it to 12% as fury is like comparing the moon with a cow, you just don't do it.
Post by
Kurasmaniac
OK now due to reading on and seeing all the hit cap posts.... WHY do you all worry about the hard cap? The hard cap is for WHITE DAMAGE ONLY! That white damage does NOT matter enough, and will NEVER matter enough, to worry about the cap for it. Get 8% for arms or 9% for fury (since Fury has the 3% hit buff you will have 12%) and you are FINE for hit. Get 20 expertise for the expertise soft cap (you should always be behind a skull mob so that is the cap for melee DPS) and then stack strength. or agi if your a rogue. But for the love of all things in the blue blazing hell, ignore the hard cap ANYTHING from this point on. Warriors are now responcible for managing our rage. If you are hit capped and expertise capped, get some haste in there and you'll hit faster, and at this point you just manage your rage. But if you constantly burn your rage like an idiot trying to faceroll, nothing can help you.
P.S. you would be surprised how rarely you miss white damage with just the soft cap for special attacks. Again, your rage will not be an issue, unless you are bad because we have to actually manage our rage now.
Expertise cap is back to 26 at 85, it has never been 20.
Yes imagine the damage you can do while managing your rage and just beeing softcapped, now think how much more you'll do when you have a steady income of rage and your 10k white hits lands more often.
How rarely you miss while being soft hit capped, i would guess about not so rarely if you do a quick fight, very often if you do a 6 min fight, about 22%.
Hard cap is not about being viable, its about being optimal in that spec, if you want to be mediocre, then sure stay at the softcap, if you want to see how the class works at its best, then get as much hit as possible, hardcap is kind of out of the question during the first tier of the new content, 18% is more reasonable without sacrificing strength.
8% for arms is arms hardcap, so comparing it to 12% as fury is like comparing the moon with a cow, you just don't do it.
Basically all of this.
Gae clearly thought his leet 10k deepz at the soft hitcap was good enough at lvl 80... but i digress.
I have personally gone Arms until i get some purples flowing in, I seem to be at or near top dmg on single target fights, on AoE I'm king fish due to my taking BnT. I smell a possible nerf inc on that talent if AoE becomes as prominent as it is in reg dungeons.
So far things are looking pretty good for the dps warrior in cata, there is definately a strong skill factor which i find to be quite enjoyable. =)
Post by
Badaccus
My Armory
Currently sitting half a lvl from 85, Fury is feeling better than ever, steadily sitting at 7-9k depending on how i behave (6k if i really mess up), and considering i've done only a few dungeons and had minimal time to build myself in the rotation, i dont think we're gone, i think we're strong, fun and a wee bit of a challenge.
(and comparing to my rogue the selfhealing from recuperate is a fricking laugh)
Arms on the other hand feels weak, like i have gaps that needs filling but nothing to fill them with, might just be me missing out on something. (Should we use TC? O.o)
Yes i have Berserking, my GF had mats and needed the skill. Will replace with something better as she skills her enchanting.
OH God i forgot my extra sockets! /facedesk
Post by
GaeBolge
It is honestly just like that. Fury gains the 3% hit via just BEING fury. Since it is duel wielding its hit cap is higher. The % you need is still the same, and they DID lower the expertise cap to 20 for DPS, since you will always be behind the boss. (parry haste only procs off parry, duh). expertise for tanks is still 26. Also.... my 10k DPS as arms, during WotLK, was in my pvp arms spec since I was the only tank who has a working DPS set in my old guild. Whoop de friggin do.
Now to punch some holes into your other flawed logic:
1 - I do use EJ :) go figure. I just assume you do too and at least check sources, keeping an open mind about how to play, and that I don't have to argue with an idiot who just wants to troll.
2 - Rage is normalized. Every hit gives you X amount of rage now. Period. Mortal Strike costs 25rage. If when you hit the target you gain X rage and lets say X =15 (because I honestly forget what X really equals) that means by casting MS you truly only loose 10rage. You loose 25 casting the attack, when it hits you gain back 15 totaling a loss of only 10rage.
3 - More hits at the cost of higher damage, does not mean jack. Yes, it SEEMS like a good idea to get all those white hits in, at about 2.1seconds per swing on the general amount of haste leftover after reforges, but that comes at the cost of adding the more important stats that increase your yellow (Special attack) Damage. I would rather be able to hit 3 bursts of a 26k overpower, 32k Heroic Strike, and 35k MS in under 3seconds, gaining roughly 15rage off of each strike so I only loose a small amount, than rely completely on my white 10k damage every 2.1 seconds.
4 - To even reach this point where your white hits never miss is redundantly out of reach. 9% for 1handed melee 12% for 2handed melee. These %'s remain the same. However, the amount of hit rating needed to reach these has increased dramatically. Similarly, for DW the hit rating needed to never miss white damage is, still, about 27%. You want to show me a gear combo that reaches 27% chance to hit? Go for it.
Please, don't try to troll the forums when people are asking quite normal, and important questions because the normalization to rage and concept of having to manage resources is indeed posing a significant obstacle for a LOT of people.
Post by
masti
It is honestly just like that. Fury gains the 3% hit via just BEING fury. Since it is duel wielding its hit cap is higher. The % you need is still the same, and they DID lower the expertise cap to 20 for DPS, since you will always be behind the boss. (parry haste only procs off parry, duh). expertise for tanks is still 26. Also.... my 10k DPS as arms, during WotLK, was in my pvp arms spec since I was the only tank who has a working DPS set in my old guild. Whoop de friggin do.
Now to punch some holes into your other flawed logic:
1 - I do use EJ :) go figure. I just assume you do too and at least check sources, keeping an open mind about how to play, and that I don't have to argue with an idiot who just wants to troll.
2 - Rage is normalized. Every hit gives you X amount of rage now. Period. Mortal Strike costs 25rage. If when you hit the target you gain X rage and lets say X =15 (because I honestly forget what X really equals) that means by casting MS you truly only loose 10rage. You loose 25 casting the attack, when it hits you gain back 15 totaling a loss of only 10rage.
3 - More hits at the cost of higher damage, does not mean jack. Yes, it SEEMS like a good idea to get all those white hits in, at about 2.1seconds per swing on the general amount of haste leftover after reforges, but that comes at the cost of adding the more important stats that increase your yellow (Special attack) Damage. I would rather be able to hit 3 bursts of a 26k overpower, 32k Heroic Strike, and 35k MS in under 3seconds, gaining roughly 15rage off of each strike so I only loose a small amount, than rely completely on my white 10k damage every 2.1 seconds.
4 - To even reach this point where your white hits never miss is redundantly out of reach. 9% for 1handed melee 12% for 2handed melee. These %'s remain the same. However, the amount of hit rating needed to reach these has increased dramatically. Similarly, for DW the hit rating needed to never miss white damage is, still, about 27%. You want to show me a gear combo that reaches 27% chance to hit? Go for it.
Please, don't try to troll the forums when people are asking quite normal, and important questions because the normalization to rage and concept of having to manage resources is indeed posing a significant obstacle for a LOT of people.
Clearly i've been gone for when the art of trolling died.
I don't know if your a bad troll or just don't want to learn things at all.
Hardcap for 1 weapon, 1hander or 2hander doesn't matter, is 8%, for dual wielding its 27%.
There isnt any optimal gear right now to get to the hardcap for dualwielding without gimping your other stats. But when this thread started there was since we still were lvl 80.
Rage normalization makes it extra important to get as much hit to the cap as you can, during the time where you got a full ragebar from a crit it was not as important for fury, but hit has and will always be the most important stat to cap for arms.
Yes you would like to make that burst in 3 sec, but what if the second white hit misses? you would have to wait another 3,5 sec for more rage.
Your logic is based on what if, our logic is based on numbers and tested facts.
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