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Thou shalt not kill...
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Post by
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
I'm not trying to change your beliefs. I simply do not understand how someone can blindly believe something with no evidence to back it up.
I do have evidence. Most people won't take it as evidence however because it is spiritual evidence.
Yay for personal stories that will be destroyed =D
OK, so I have severe Asthma. As in, so severe I have to get 2 shots that cost $1,000 each, once a month.
So I get RSV at age 7 (Nobody could believe it. The doctor's were going psycho, exclaiming how that was possible). I get put in the hospital with a SAT of 82 (A good sat is 93 or so+. If it drops below 90 than you
need
to get help, fast. Mine was 82. I was put in ICU with a very slim chance of surviving. My vitals were dropping like a stone.
My entire family (mine and extended) were praying and fasting for me. My name had been submitted to the Salt Lake Temple to be prayed for healing. My dad and his partner (For home teaching) came to my room. My sat had hit 80 and was in danger of dropping again. They gave me a priesthood prayer of healing while I slept, so I had no idea that they were doing it until I woke partway during the prayer. My vitals started rising about 5 minutes after the prayer.
Two days later I was released to go home, fully recovered (although my asthma was still slightly bad the sickness was gone.)
This is one example of evidence I have. I have others as well.
More often than not people die in these scenarios, however the story is only noticed when someone doesn't die. I don't feel that I need to post the quarter genie story again. Anecdotal evidence is useless.
Post by
135207
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Post by
85162
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Post by
212003
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Post by
Orranis
1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Funden is biblically accurate in this one, Orranis. Down to the jot and tittle.
Show me, where in this exact sentence, it states that every human being besides Noah and co. was evil. I have read Genesis. The only thing I can be sure of is that enough of them were evil to make God regret having made them. It might not be the same to you, but I'd really you guys rather adress my other points, rather than some "amirite" made by Adamsm. I don't care which event was worse, because I don't believe that either of them happened. Only that if they did, it would make God a murderer.
Post by
Adamsm
5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Funden is biblically accurate in this one, Orranis. Down to the jot and tittle.
Show me, where in this exact sentence, it states that every human being besides Noah and co. was evil. I have read Genesis. The only thing I can be sure of is that enough of them were evil to make God regret having made them. It might not be the same to you, but I'd really you guys rather adress my other points, rather than some "amirite" made by Adamsm. I don't care which event was worse, because I don't believe that either of them happened. Only that if they did, it would make God a murderer.
5 and 6.
Post by
Orranis
5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Funden is biblically accurate in this one, Orranis. Down to the jot and tittle.
Show me, where in this exact sentence, it states that every human being besides Noah and co. was evil. I have read Genesis. The only thing I can be sure of is that enough of them were evil to make God regret having made them. It might not be the same to you, but I'd really you guys rather adress my other points, rather than some "amirite" made by Adamsm. I don't care which event was worse, because I don't believe that either of them happened. Only that if they did, it would make God a murderer.
5 and 6.
5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
It also states
1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Does this mean that every man had a daughter, or even children? I doubt it. It says that the wickedness of man was great, not that every man was evil. I still think that the wickedness of man is great upon the earth, that does not mean all men are wicked.
Post by
Adamsm
Does this mean that every man had a daughter, or even children? I doubt it. It says that the wickedness of man was great, not that every man was evil. I still think that the wickedness of man is great upon the earth, that does not mean all men are wicked.
Man was the term they used to speak about the overall race; of course not all of them were evil, otherwise Noah, his wife, his 3 sons, and their wives wouldn't have been spared. Again, this is dealing with the Old Testament god.... and he was a vengeful SOB; Soddom and Gamorra ring a bell? But what I find amusing here, you've admitted you don't believe, so why do you really care? After all, the opinions of a 13 year old aren't going to sway anyone who is set in their belief of what they trust in.
Post by
Monday
More often than not people die in these scenarios, however the story is only noticed when someone doesn't die. I don't feel that I need to post the quarter genie story again. Anecdotal evidence is useless.
That anecdote was stated to be the reason Funden believes in God. No more, no less.
Exactly.
I was too late =O
Post by
Squishalot
I have read the Joseph Smith Translations on Exodus, and none deny or state the misinterpretation of the tenth plague, that of creeping death to all firstborn.
God remains a murderer, and a terrorist.
Orranis, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you believe that the 'right' thing to do is what God tells you to do, then such killing is 'right' also.
You're implicitly assuming that 'killing others' is the wrong thing to do, so where's your fundamental reason for believing that?
I'm not arguing from my perspective, I'm arguing from a religious to show his is flawed. God states that it is immoral to murder, so he is immoral.
Just to be clear - the Greeks used to argue that what was moral was what the Gods willed. God states that it is immoral for us to murder, so if we murder, it's wrong. But if he wants to murder, that's his will, and therefore it's right.
You see? You're not arguing from a religious perspective.
Post by
Orranis
Man was the term they used to speak about the overall race; of course not all of them were evil, otherwise Noah, his wife, his 3 sons, and their wives wouldn't have been spared. Again, this is dealing with the Old Testament god.... and he was a vengeful SOB; Soddom and Gamorra ring a bell?
Can we really just let this argument settle? You're thinking I'm arguing that every person was evil. In reality, I was just arguing that in that particular scenario there was much less context as well as much more room for interpretation, so I decided to use a point that's a bit more arguable. I'm not disagreeing with you.
But what I find amusing here, you've admitted you don't believe, so why do you really care? After all, the opinions of a 13 year old aren't going to sway anyone who is set in their belief of what they trust in.
Honestly? I don't know. Maybe I'm cruel, and showing people there fallacies is simply enjoyable to me. I don't honestly think I'll persuade anyone anything, because it's unfortified faith. I can't argue with it.
Post by
Adamsm
But what I find amusing here, you've admitted you don't believe, so why do you really care? After all, the opinions of a 13 year old aren't going to sway anyone who is set in their belief of what they trust in.
Honestly? I don't know. Maybe I'm cruel, and showing people there fallacies is simply enjoyable to me. I don't honestly think I'll persuade anyone anything, because it's unfortified faith. I can't argue with it.
Your not showing anyone there 'fallacies', your merely putting forth your opinion on something and acting like it's a hard proven fact. I know nothing in this thread has shaken my own faith in a divine creator after all.
Post by
Orranis
But what I find amusing here, you've admitted you don't believe, so why do you really care? After all, the opinions of a 13 year old aren't going to sway anyone who is set in their belief of what they trust in.
Honestly? I don't know. Maybe I'm cruel, and showing people there fallacies is simply enjoyable to me. I don't honestly think I'll persuade anyone anything, because it's unfortified faith. I can't argue with it.
Your not showing anyone there 'fallacies', your merely putting forth your opinion on something and acting like it's a hard proven fact. I know nothing in this thread has shaken my own faith in a divine creator after all.
I don't know enough about your religions to do such things. Plus, I haven't really seen you put forth any arguments I can contradict or attack, you've really just played devil's advocate throughout this whole thread.
I am putting forth commonly accepted opinions. There is no 'fact,' so what's the point of communication at all? When the monkey says to his friend, "come here for bananas," he doesn't know whether those bananas exist. He might have had a mirage, or maybe it was actually poisonous fruits disguised as bananas.
Post by
Adamsm
I don't know enough about your religions to do such things. Plus, I haven't really seen you put forth any arguments I can contradict or attack, you've really just played devil's advocate throughout this whole thread.Why not? I'm not a Christian but I know things about them, and seeing as it seems like the atheist out number them 3-1 I figured I'd add in things to try to help. As for you not knowing things about my own personal religions... even if you did, you still wouldn't shake my faith about them, as the ^&*!@#$s who attempted kick my teeth in during high school for believing in something different didn't make me change my mind, random person on the internet won't do it either.
I am putting forth commonly accepted opinions. There is no 'fact,' so what's the point of communication at all? When the monkey says to his friend, "come here for bananas," he doesn't know whether those bananas exist. He might have had a mirage, or maybe it was actually poisonous fruits disguised as bananas.That analogy... really has nothing to do with opinions vs facts at all lol.
Post by
Skreeran
I don't know enough about your religions to do such things. Plus, I haven't really seen you put forth any arguments I can contradict or attack, you've really just played devil's advocate throughout this whole thread.Why not? I'm not a Christian but I know things about them, and seeing as it seems like the atheist out number them 3-1 I figured I'd add in things to try to help. As for you not knowing things about my own personal religions... even if you did, you still wouldn't shake my faith about them, as the ^&*!@#$s who attempted kick my teeth in during high school for believing in something different didn't make me change my mind, random person on the internet won't do it either.Well, violence rarely changes peoples' minds about things. That's terrorism. We hope to change people's minds through words and reasoning instead.
I know that I have personally caused one christian to become an atheist.
Post by
Monday
I know that I have personally caused one christian to become an atheist.
I've done the opposite =D
Post by
Orranis
I don't know enough about your religions to do such things. Plus, I haven't really seen you put forth any arguments I can contradict or attack, you've really just played devil's advocate throughout this whole thread.Why not? I'm not a Christian but I know things about them, and seeing as it seems like the atheist out number them 3-1 I figured I'd add in things to try to help. As for you not knowing things about my own personal religions... even if you did, you still wouldn't shake my faith about them, as the ^&*!@#$s who attempted kick my teeth in during high school for believing in something different didn't make me change my mind, random person on the internet won't do it either.
You've argued against them just as much. Chill out, I'm not attacking you. If I can't change their beliefs, why argue on their behalf?
I am putting forth commonly accepted opinions. There is no 'fact,' so what's the point of communication at all? When the monkey says to his friend, "come here for bananas," he doesn't know whether those bananas exist. He might have had a mirage, or maybe it was actually poisonous fruits disguised as bananas.That analogy... really has nothing to do with opinions vs facts at all lol.
Of course it does. There are no facts, only things that make the most sense. If they could always be wrong, what's the point in making any statement.
Post by
Adamsm
You've argued against them just as much. Chill out, I'm not attacking you. If I can't change their beliefs, why argue on their behalf?Because I'm not trying to change anyone; every person has the right to believe in whatever they want to believe; if they want to believe that some super power omni-potent person in the sky created everything, that's there right, and it's not your business to try to prove them wrong.
I am putting forth commonly accepted opinions. There is no 'fact,' so what's the point of communication at all? When the monkey says to his friend, "come here for bananas," he doesn't know whether those bananas exist. He might have had a mirage, or maybe it was actually poisonous fruits disguised as bananas.That analogy... really has nothing to do with opinions vs facts at all lol.
Of course it does. There are no facts, only things that make the most sense. If they could always be wrong, what's the point in making any statement.
There are no facts, really? Your going to say that lol? So the fact that the sun always rises, every day, that's just someone's opinion that everyone believes? That the tides always go out every night, again, an opinion? Yes, when it comes to religion there are no solid facts, beyond what a person personally believes; but your using the opinions you have about Christians and God as a solid and proven fact.
Post by
Skreeran
I am putting forth commonly accepted opinions. There is no 'fact,' so what's the point of communication at all? When the monkey says to his friend, "come here for bananas," he doesn't know whether those bananas exist. He might have had a mirage, or maybe it was actually poisonous fruits disguised as bananas.That analogy... really has nothing to do with opinions vs facts at all lol.
Of course it does. There are no facts, only things that make the most sense. If they could always be wrong, what's the point in making any statement.
There are no facts, really? Your going to say that lol? So the fact that the sun always rises, every day, that's just someone's opinion that everyone believes? That the tides always go out every night, again, an opinion? Yes, when it comes to religion there are no solid facts, beyond what a person personally believes; but your using the opinions you have about Christians and God as a solid and proven fact.He means that nothing can be proven with absolute 100% certainty. We understand that the earth revolves around the sun, causing day/ngiht, and that the moon revolves around the earth, causing the tides, however, these are simply the theories with the most evidence. There are no facts in science. Even laws, the closest thing to facts in science, can be flawed, and will be changed to fit the evidence as necessary.
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