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Blue post Aff-response
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Post by
modicumofrespite
The recent Blue-post suggests some changes (buff) to PvE Locks and Blizz asked for feedback (rarely ever seen such a request. let's give them feedback!). So, the question is: What could Blizz do to help Aff-lock PvE dps. Keeping in mind that the Dev's want long ramp-up times to protect PvP balance.
Suggestion would be to
get rid of stand-and-cast
spells and return to instants cast from any direction (no "must face target" messages), like the good days of old. Stand-to-cast is for Destruction and Demonology. Affliction was always insta-cast on the move. This could be done without causing PvP problems by any one of several mechanisms and could be talents in the Aff-tree or Glyph.
a) Make SB insta-cast (and no need to face target) after Haunt, but adds a 3 second cooldown to SB (in lieu of 3-stack S-Embrace).
b) Make SB insta-cast anytime (and no need to face target), but adds a 6 second cooldown.
c) CoE hits all mobs within 15 yds of the target (for trash dps equalization).
d) Let UA buff S-Embrace, instead of SB.
e) Buff spells to instants for motion (the opposite of hunter "Sniper Training").
f) Double or triple the damage taken before Seed of Corruption activates. (doesn't technically reduce stand-to-cast, but would be fun, nevertheless).
Those are six suggestions. Are there Game-crafters that can think of even better mechanics to remove Aff stand-to-cast spells without unbalancing PvP?
Post by
356172
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
a+b) stop trying to put a cooldown on my filler spell! it's a
filler
spell.
c) who cares about trash?
d) why? it's a stack and forget talent.
e) why?
f) why!
?
! we
want
it to pop immediately.
the problem here is that you're trying to fix the problem of ranged having a tough time in ICC when that isn't the issue that blizz are fixing. they're fixing sub-par overall output. you're suggesting stuff which would really meddle with class balance and doesn't appear to achieve anything that fantastic.
Post by
LookOut
Did I miss something? I thought they already figured out what they were gonna buff for affliction, namely giving Shadow Embrace a third stack, but lowering the healing debuff per stack. O, and more sbolt damage through Improved Shadow Bolt.
Or am I talking besides the point here?
Btw, affliction getting instant cast on all dots + haunt (+ fear) would be way too OP in PvP. Hug that pillar! (Do it like ya mean it!)
Post by
modicumofrespite
Maybe instant casts are OP for ranged and that's why every talent tree for every class has devolved to "stand-and-cast." Fine. Make all casters the same, but I liked the old Affliction where running and casting (backwards, if one wanted) was the norm.
As long as Blizz offered to tinker with Warlock capabilities, migtht it be better to fix some things about Affliction than to simply "turn up the dps?" And adding a stack to S-Embrace is not a good solution, because it means an extra, long-cast SB in the rotation. Affliction ramp-up time is already long enough. Would like to reduce stand-and-cast, not increase it.
To Asakawa:
a) only the "free" SB after Haunt would add the CD. It could be much like Shadow Trance's "free" SB. This is an attempt to keep stand-and-cast to a minimum (or at least constant in this case).
b) Fair point. But, doesn't stand-and-cast annoy you? If it doesn't, perhaps you should play one of the other two talent trees where stand-and-cast is the norm?
c) I care about trash because lazy GM's/RL's who only look at end-of-the-night Recount care about trash. Better trash dps = more warlock raid time. Also, if nobody cares about trash dps, why not buff Aff-locks? What does it hurt, assuming your assertion that nobody "cares about trash dps?"
d) Because, stand-and-cast is a horrible mechanic and the proposed change makes it worse.
e) Because, Affliction's run-and-cast used to be awesome.
f) Quite the opposite. If you just want your SoC to go off as fast as possible, why not ask Blizz to just buff RoF? SoC has such a cool mechanic, with the potential that one SoC will trigger another. Having three pop at the same time would be great fun with a massive pulse of damage (while keeping average dps constant).
Post by
asakawa
Q: when are these glory days of running around you're talking about?
A: in your mind.
i've played a warlocks since level 60 was end-game and we played SM/ruin. guess what? we put DoTs up then spammed SB until they needed refreshing.
running backwards is a fail.
don't play with bad raid leaders.
casting is what magic users do in sword and sorcery games of all flavours. how has this crept up on you?
tripling the damage requirement on SoC wouldn't change its use in raids, i'd still spam it on one target, but it would kill its use in 5mans. why would you think that's a good idea?
Post by
modicumofrespite
Back when we had a second life-stealing instant (it was called Siphon Life), it was possible to cast the first 3-4 spells on the move. I feel sorry for you, if you do not remember those days. Blizz felt we had too many spells to cast, so they nerfed Siphon and combined the life-steal with Corruption under a talent with the same name.
I said "cast backwards," not run backwards. If you want to be argumentative for the sake of arguing, go somewhere else. The difference between stand-and-cast and run-and-cast seems lost on you Asakawa. You've admitted knowing nothing else, so I can't help you in this regard.
Have many 80's in many guilds. All GM's assimilate dps numbers as quickly as possible and trash dps is always a factor. Some cut Warlocks slack for trash dps, most don't. So, at best you're being "cut slack" for poor performance and at worst, being judged as a poor performer because of bad trash dps. Your argument that trash dps isn't important is factually incorrect and even if it was correct, the follow-on argument to leave Warlocks with bad trash dps is intellectually weak. So I say again: fix Warlock trash dps.
Tripling CoE bloom time might be too much, but a little more than doubling should allow three SoC's on three targets. There's very little aggro until SoC blooms, so it's a safe way to get good dps - until bloom. Today, by selecting non-tank-targets, two SoC's can barely be cast before they bloom. Just enough to often draw aggro. I currently kill time by casting CoE's until the tank has sufficient aggro. This often ends up with dead CoE targets and potentially very angry non-CoE'd targets.
In a perfect world, an aoe CoE and three SoC's would one-shot the remaining health of a standard aoe trash situation (assuming trash drops in 15-25 seconds). SoC should be more of a finishing move. Use SoC too early and there could be aggro trouble, too late and there would be less than optimal dps. That choice = fun.
With a three stack requirement for S-Embrace the new rotation will start something like: CoE, SB, SB, Haunt Corruption, ... That's 1.5s + 2.5s + 2.5s + 1.5s = 8 seconds before the first real DoT is applied. It's also 6.5 seconds of stand-and-cast. A far worse situation than we're in now.
Finally, we've heard from the naysayers with virtually nothing to contribute beyond derision. How about hearing from Warlocks who want to have a positive influence on the class? Let's hear some suggestions to improve our mechanics?
Post by
384316
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
244066
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
Either way, get some knowledge about your class.
classic
we had siphon life which was an instant that's true. we also had to cast immolate which has a cast time.
our rotation was:
haunt > SB > Corr > UA > immo > SiLi > CoA
you were casting 2 instants every 30 seconds.
in what way does that constitute "run and cast"?
you make some idiotic posts and then tell
me
to learn the class? lol.
Post by
Philll
Where is that blue post anyway?
Oh, and btw, on icc trash pulls i usually farm shards, throw a couple seeds, occasionally pick my nose ( with a tissue of course), sometimes single target a spider and so on... all comming down to avg 4k dps and guess what, my RL is fine with that. Never had a comment and prolly never will as big numbers come down on the bosses.
I dont know, maybe my RL is a nubcake. What do you think?
Post by
skribs
1) Even if you
can
move and cast at the same time, its not worth it in raids to be constantly running around because you're pushing an extra button to do so and gain no real effect from doing so (unless you're moving for fight mechanics). So why you would run around in circles while DOTing instead of standing still is beyond me.
2) SoC spam on a single target results in some of the highest trash DPS. Tab-spamming wouldn't generally work as well (the focus target is more likely to be taking hits), but even so your idea wouldn't result in that big of a DPS increase. You're mainly looking for the cool factor of having multiple AoEs go off at once, and "cool" has nothing to do with balance.
3) Affl warlocks have more mobility than a lot of ranged. Look at a destro lock - the only instant is Conflagrate. An Affl warlock has CoA, Corr, and instant SBs - plus quite a few 1.5 sec casts. This is a lot quicker than most classes.
4) Adding a CD to shadow bolt for Affl would be like adding a CD to Incinerate for Destro. The spell is your filler spell, bottom of the priority list. So why would you want to put a CD on it (what would you do during that time if all dots were already up?).
5) Any GM who assumes DPS on trash is the best measure of skill should not be in charge. It does show some knowledge if say warlock A is doing 22k and warlock B is doing 5k, but cross-class doesn't matter as Blizzard doesn't balance AoE damage. What matters is boss fights - are you capable of doing your part of beating the enrage timer while still following fight mechanics?
Post by
244066
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
356172
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Badguy
and no. raid leaders dont look at trash dps you kluts.
Only in PuGs.
Post by
skribs
and no.
good
raid leaders dont look at trash dps you kluts. they look at boss dps cause boss = what matters.
fixt
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