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A Question to ask about loot rules about BoE epics.
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Post by
mech6982
My groups have a simple rule about BoE loot:
If you're going to equip it on the spot, you get priority over those who are going to auction it off.
I don't care how much the item is worth. Those who will use it as an upgrade will always have priority. In cases like the battered hilt, nearly ever spec in the game has an item that they can get from it. If someone already has it, sit down and shut up. You don't get two just because it sells for ridiculous amounts of money; that's money you didn't have to fork over to get your gear.
It's a potential upgrade for everyone in the group if it's BoE. If you can use it, that's great, if not, you can sell it and use the cash to get something you can use.
This is Blizzards 'official' position on BoE drops as well, as they have discussed in relation to the Battered Hilt, and stopping people from rolling on it after they have already completed the quest.Link please. I have searched blizzard posts, both on a BlueTracker and on the official US forum, and have not found this stance posted by blizzard.
Post by
knockback
What keeps me wondering, is why people claim that you can need on BoE for gold, but not BoP? BoP items can be vendored for gold. Does that mean, by the right of needing gold, that blizzards new Need/Greed sorting system, is wrong to deny my priest plate items, as i could sell them? If that's the case, what's the point of the Need/Greed system?
5g for a BoP != 2kg for a BoE
Post by
Fhoulan
World drops are fair game to everyone. Period. It's an upgrade? Congrats, that's called coincidence; not entitlement. There's a reason for BOEs; they exist to be traded and sold. Money's not easy for everyone, and some people don't have the time or desire to spend the hours making the gold that can be made from taking a minute to list any of the epic BOEs.
This is all speaking from a pug perspective of course, the difference between guildies(friends) and strangers. In a pug, the ugly, unfortunate truth is that there is a much higher chance of dishonesty. Thus, the most effective way to ensure fairness to everyone on a BOE item is for all rolls to be equal.
EDIT - too tired to find and link atm, but in response to the post asking about a Blizz official opinion regarding BOEs, easy enough to google blue tracker. They do specifically state, when speaking in a post regarding the Battered Hilt, that the reason they don't have it as BOP is that they want the casuals to have access as well. That would imply that the existence of BOE epics is so that those unable to access the high end content can obtain them via AH. Meaning, if you have access to end game content and all of the BOPs that entails, BOE epics such as the one discussed in this post are actually intended more for the AH than they are for you.
Knowing that they exist primarily for players that don't have access to the same content as end-gamers, ironically enough suggests that rolling need on them for yourself to equip is actually a greedier choice than another player winning the roll and making sure it ends up on the AH, where they can fulfill their intended purpose.
Post by
JemiS
My groups have a simple rule about BoE loot:
If you're going to equip it on the spot, you get priority over those who are going to auction it off.
I don't care how much the item is worth. Those who will use it as an upgrade will always have priority. In cases like the battered hilt, nearly ever spec in the game has an item that they can get from it. If someone already has it, sit down and shut up. You don't get two just because it sells for ridiculous amounts of money; that's money you didn't have to fork over to get your gear.
It's a potential upgrade for everyone in the group if it's BoE. If you can use it, that's great, if not, you can sell it and use the cash to get something you can use.
This is Blizzards 'official' position on BoE drops as well, as they have discussed in relation to the Battered Hilt, and stopping people from rolling on it after they have already completed the quest.Link please. I have searched blizzard posts, both on a BlueTracker and on the official US forum, and have not found this stance posted by blizzard.
I don't really mind that there is no tank version. I'm still going to need roll on it if it drops, then AH it if I win. Don't like it? Maybe you shouldn't have been so rude to tanks when it was revealed that there was no tanking version.
I don't see any issue with everybody rolling on it since it's an item every class can use in some way. Good luck!
There are other similar posts, but this is the main one, by Bornakk, in response to someone rolling on and AHing the hilt.
Post by
Erethzium
My guild's BoE epic rules go like this:
If it's not an upgrade for MAIN SPEC, it goes to greed roll.
I love all these people saying that money is just as good as a gear upgrade. IMO:
Gear Upgrade >>>> Money
Post by
pezz
My guild's BoE epic rules go like this:
If it's not an upgrade for MAIN SPEC, it goes to greed roll.
I love all these people saying that money is just as good as a gear upgrade. IMO:
Gear Upgrade >>>> Money
True, but try phrasing it differently. Jetze's bell is rare enough that it probably goes for a couple thousand (or at least 8 or 9 hundred) on the Auction house. It's an ilvl 200. I've seen i200s going for 200 on the AH.
at least 4 upgrades >>>>> 1 upgrade?.
And say my server is extremely unusual, or I'm misremembering. It's a trinket, and a good trinket, so it's going to sell at the very least for a little more than most any i200 piece. So after one or two AH transactions it's an upgrade for absolutely anyone who gets it.
TL;DR: If you consider that a BoE can be sold for an amount of gold large enough to buy another BoE of the same ilvl, then you aren't looking at a gear upgrade versus money. You're looking for a gear upgrade for
anyone
in the group. I'm not sure why the fact that some members might have to spend a grand total of 5 minutes at the AH and others wouldn't is relevant.
Post by
mech6982
I don't really mind that there is no tank version. I'm still going to need roll on it if it drops, then AH it if I win. Don't like it? Maybe you shouldn't have been so rude to tanks when it was revealed that there was no tanking version.
I don't see any issue with everybody rolling on it (battered hilt) since it's an item every class can use in some way. Good luck!
There are other similar posts, but this is the main one, by Bornakk, in response to someone rolling on and AHing the hilt.
He's quoting an AH reply, but when I read it he's talking more about the fact that every class can use the rewards from obtaining a hilt. For tank classes, that means the DPS reward for their "off-spec".
And, let us not forget, that this is Bornakk speaking about his personal view about everyone in the party rolling. This is not him making a public announcement, stickied, at the top of a forum on behalf of Blizzard Entertainment stating that everyone has the right to auction a BoE drop in front of the person in your party who could be wearing an upgraded piece of loot because you're gold-happy.
Try again, sir.
Post by
JemiS
And nowhere in my original post did I say that. I said:
'official' position on BoE drops as well, as they have discussed in relation to the Battered Hilt, and stopping people from rolling on it after they have already completed the quest.
Notice the quotes around official?
Also, he is replying specifically to someone discussing auctioning the item due to no rewards that suit them
He didn't say some specs of every class, he said everyone.
There is also mention in the same thread of a dev saying they have no issues with someone rolling who has already completed the quest.
Taking these together, they have no problem with someone needing and selling BoEs. Same principle applies to other BoEs as the hilt.
Post by
464693
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Post by
302625
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Post by
547015
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Post by
Tya1
On my server when a BoE epic drops in a run ppl will greed if they don't need it, with exceptions of really special stuff. (When the mount dropped from that guy in UK/UP, never know what one it is, the collective reaction was: all need, so we won't have anybody crying in a minute.)
As far as I always had understood and learned it, greed means: I'd like it, because I see profit in it, and need means: I can use it directly for myself, with then the follow up rule: need over greed. Making profit though, is not a NEED.
Yes, BoE are in the game for trading, but I don't see any BoE that drops in a group as fair game. If I happen to win it because nobody NEEDS it, happy me. If somebody else wins it because that person has a nice upgrade, happy that other person.
Back in the day I was sort of after Jet'zes Bell too, but I was NOT going to pay the 10/12k ppl asked on the AH. And just because there are alternatives for BoE's or you can buy them, doesn't make it OK to deny somebody the luck of a good upgrade. The color doesn't suddenly flip around the definition of need and greed. ^^
Post by
obiwaynekenobi
I'm torn on this. Normally BOE epics are always open roll because you can sell it or give it to an alt or something. Like if the Battered Hilt drops, it's an "All Need" situation, whether or not one person could really use the weapon (e.g. they're still using a Titansteel Destroyer, for instance).
Given the circumstances, if it was really an upgrade for you (how could a level 200 BOE be an upgrade? Are you a fresh 80?) then courtesy would be to let you have it, but again BOEs are BOEs and almost always go to an open roll especially if they're worth a lot. Same goes for the BOEs in ICC; in a PUG it gets treated like an open roll even if somebody could really use it (most of the time), but in a guild it gets treated like a regular piece of loot.
... my Captcha has a russian (or greek, maybe?) word. WTF?
Post by
Pwntiff
@obiwayne: The thread originated in Dec '09. Only the first wing of ICC was available, and Je'Tze's Bell is still a pretty good trinket.
In my PuG runs, the established rule was Main Set > Off Set > Gold. In my guild lead runs (aka majority guild) the rule was Need > Guild Bank. If you type it out clearly at the beginning of the raid, no one can QQ to a GM about you "ninja'ing" a BoE for anyone.
On the topic of reCAPTCHA: reCAPTCHA gets its words digitizing books. If two OCR programs cannot agree on a word, it is added to the list for human verification. Only one word is unknown, the other is known and used as a test. It assumes if a person can type the known word, they can type the unknown word.
Foreign languages, symbols, and numbers are all fair game because the process is automated and kicks any contested word into the list, for the most part.
Post by
440695
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Post by
303152
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Post by
Pwntiff
My friend needs Books of Glyph Mastery on any of his characters, he does have a Scribe, and learns it on the spot when he wins on that character. I need Damaged Necklaces on characters other than my JC.
I don't expect people to be pleased with it, but I don't expect myself to pass on a somewhat rare profession drop like that just because I was unlucky that it was while I was on another character.
If I join a PuG that doesn't establish loot rules from the get-go, I leave it. And while I has farming regulars for my tank's gear, if the group didn't agree on Main Set > Off Set > Greed, I left too.
Post by
508201
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Post by
381340
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Post by
pezz
...who would turn around and stick it on the AH.
If they sold it, got the money, and then turned immediately
back
around to the AH to purchase an upgrade of equivalent usefulness using the money from the Bell, would you still be upset? Is that qualitatively different from you getting exactly one upgrade by using the Bell from the get-go?
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