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Most Evil Disney Villain
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Post by
Adamsm
Eh, Malficent still scares the hell out of me, as does Cruella. Shadowman was just too over the top.
Specifically over the top? Pretty much every Disney villain is
hammy
as
hell
. :PYeah they are, but it's like with the Shadowman they went with every single Voodoo cliche they could pack into the character; I like the Disney villains, but not him, he just seemed too much of a cardboard cut out. Like I said, he wasn't really evil, even if his ultimate plan was for his 'Friends' to take over New Orleans, but it was just...meh.
Anyway, because she's not been mentioned, I'll say that Mother Gothel is probably
not
a contender for the most evil Disney villain, because she is portrayed quite sympathetically and her villain song is quite
chirpy
. Even when she
is
being villainous, it's partially out of personally caring for Rapunzel, presumably, seeing as she has raised her for 18 years and is shown as quite thoughtful, considering little 'nice' things such as cooking Rapunzel's favourite meals, even if it arguably is an excuse to keep her distracted from wanting to leave her tower.
Her death was quite unnecessary, really. The climax and her death are all just a result of her greed and nature as a beloved smother outweighing her wishes to see Rapunzel be truly happy. It doesn't help that she is pretty much everyone's mother incarnate.
Well, except for trying to kill her 'daughter's' boyfriend, kidnapping said daughter, sending a pair of thugs to capture her then turning on them to make herself look good, and all the rest....lol.
Post by
Patty
Well, except for trying to kill her 'daughter's' boyfriend, kidnapping said daughter, sending a pair of thugs to capture her then turning on them to make herself look good, and all the rest....lol.
It's still a form of hyperbole of most people's parents. KillingFlynn? Most parents, particularly in the west, are predisposed to dislike their child's partners, especially mothers (although usually with sons) as they are viewed sometimes as stealing their babies. Not to mention, Rapunzel has literally been Mother Gothel's life for the last 18 years, and the flower itself is like her child. With benefits. Besides, that was in the climax and was pretty much used as an excuse to turn her evil enough to kill her off. The whole 'saving' of Rapunzel was to try and reaffirm herself as still having an important role in Rapunzel's life, perhaps not wanting to feel abandoned and alone. She was a manipulative, exaggerated parent, but she was still very applicable to many parents in several respects.
Gothel is easily one of the more sympathetic villains, her expression when she finds out Rapunzel is missing is really quite heart wrenching, for example.
Post by
Adamsm
Gothel is easily one of the more sympathetic villains, her expression when she finds out Rapunzel is missing is really quite heart wrenching, for example.Or....alternative thinking: Her expression isn't that Rapunzel is gone...it's the fact that her fountain of youth has just vanished, and if she doesn't get her back, she's going to start aging and aging till she turns into ash like she did at the climax of the movie. You see the 'eviler' side of her all through out the movie; her constant manipulations of Rap, her chessmaster moves against Flynn and the idiot twins, and....oh I don't know....The fact that she kidnaps the Princess of the Kingdom because of the fact that the eternal youth flower was used on her to heal her and she wants to keep accessing that fountain of youth forever...whether or not Rap wants to be a prisoner for her entire life or not.
Post by
Patty
Just because she kidnapped Rapunzel as a baby doesn't mean that she doesn't care for her at all, after all - she spent 18 years raising the child as her own, and Rapunzel was clearly shown a lot of affection by Mother Gothel, their relationship seems less strained than between those of the parents of an average 18 year old who
wasn't
kidnapped as a baby. The captivity towards the end really is, as I said, in my view, one of the excuses to make her evil enough to kill off. After all, this is Disney - it can't kill off morally ambiguous characters; that sends mixed messages to its main target audience.I still think that there could have been an ending where everything was reconciled without
any
casualties, if not for the last few scenes.
Post by
Adamsm
I really think she only cared for her in the way she cared for the Flower before it was taken from her: she 'loved' it only for what it could do for her, and beyond that, didn't care too much. There's also the way she treats Rap all through the movie; like she is a little idiot and couldn't think for herself no matter what...and the way she freaks out whenever Rap mentions leaving. And yes her villain song is 'quirky and happy'....till you realize every single word out of her mouth is an insult designed to break down Rap's confidence and spirit. Look at what happens when she conks Flynn with the frying pan(I need one of those, and need to keep it out of the hands of my girlfriend, as she was giving me weird looks lol); she wants to tell her mother she could handle herself, and Gothel ignores her and more or less just keeps treating her like an idiot.
Post by
Sweetscot
Shadow man is pretty bad...the whole controlling spirits of the dead thing was creepy.
Also, maybe to you Gothel wasn't "evil" to me she would be pretty high up on the list. She didn't "care" for Rapunzel, she STOLE her and kept her captive in a tower, and emotionally abused her for her entire life...yes very caring wonderful mother right there. Sure Rapunzel seemed quite maleable...becaue she's been kept completely sheltered and brainwashed to be that way -.-
Post by
Adamsm
Mother Knows Best
:
Mother Gothel:
You want to go outside? Why, Rapunzel...!
Look at you, as fragile as a flower
Still a little sapling, just a sprout
You know why we stay up in this tower
Rapunzel:
I know but...
Mother Gothel:
That's right, to keep you safe and sound, dear
Guess I always knew this day was coming
Knew that soon you'd want to leave the nest
Soon, but not yet
Rapunzel:
But --
Mother Gothel:
Shh!
Trust me, pet
Mother knows best
Mother knows best
Listen to your mother
It's a scary world out there
Mother knows best
One way or another
Something will go wrong, I swear
Ruffians, thugs
Poison ivy, quicksand
Cannibals and snakes
The plague
Rapunzel:
No!
Mother Gothel:
Yes!
Rapunzel:
But --
Mother Gothel:
Also large bugs
Men with pointy teeth, and
Stop, no more, you'll just upset me
Mother's right here
Mother will protect you
Darling, here's what I suggest
Skip the drama
Stay with mama
Mother knows best
Go ahead, get trampled by a rhino
Go ahead, get mugged and left for dead
Me, I'm just your mother, what do I know?
I only bathed and changed and nursed you
Go ahead and leave me, I deserve it
Let me die alone here, be my guest
When it's too late
You'll see, just wait
Mother knows best
Mother knows best
Take it from your mumsy
On your own, you won't survive
Sloppy, underdressed
Immature, clumsy
Please, they'll eat you up alive
Gullible, naïve
Positively grubby
Ditzy and a bit, well, hmm vague
Plus, I believe
Gettin' kinda chubby
I'm just saying 'cause I wuv you
Mother understands
Mother's here to help you
All I have is one request
Rapunzel?
Rapunzel:
Yes?
Mother Gothel:
Don't ever ask to leave this tower again.
Rapunzel:
Yes, Mother.
Mother Gothel:
I love you very much, dear.
Rapunzel:
I love you more.
Mother Gothel:
I love you most.
Don't forget it
You'll regret it
Mother knows bestListening to it again...abusive as hell.
Post by
Patty
I think it's quite difficult with Gothel to discern what's truly an evil action and what is genuine, but I personally think that she
did
grow to love Rapunzel, but was far too much of a control freak and, of course, selfish, to go and let Rapunzel be happy as she withered and died rather than try to make both herself
and
Rapunzel happy.
YMMV
indeed.
Edit: Adams, my mum has said half of those things (or less exaggerated versions) to me and I'd hardly call her emotionally abusive. :P
Post by
Adamsm
Well it's not that hard to figure out which is evil and which isn't:
1. Kidnapping Rapunzel, not for a daughter, but because she wanted access to the Flower of Eternal Youth.
2. Keeping her a prisoner for 18 long years.
3. Manipulating Rapunzel into doubting Flynn(alright she was right at the time) by bringing the crown to them.
4. Manipulating the Idiot Twins into attempting to capture Rap, then attacking them both to be the 'hero' to her daughter....and helping to set up Flynn for death.
5. The finale, where you do see how crazed Gothel is, intending to keep Rap locked up for the rest of her life, and force her to sing to keep 'Mummy' young and fit.
Gothel is selfish, and only sees Rap as a pet at the most...and Rap's chameleon hated her too heh, and we all know Disney animals can always tell when something is evil.
Post by
Patty
Again, just because something starts off as malevolent doesn't mean it stays so. Gothel raised Rapunzel as her own; if she didn't care, she would be much more like Frollo, she would look upon her burden with contempt and spite, she might be physically abusive as well as emotionally manipulative. Gothel seems warm and caring towards Rapunzel for the most part.
Furthermore, 3 and 4 are sort of self-defeating. She was right at the stage you mentioned, yet we don't know that she knew for certain that
Flynn
wasn't manipulating Rapunzel, and condemned him to death for perhaps using her adopted daughter. That may not be true, but it's certainly a credible viewpoint. Furthermore, #5 was in the final act and potentially used to ramp up her evil to such an extent that she could be killed off with little pity.
Also, the point about pets is not entirely true, Abu hated Jasmine at first, for example. ;)
Post by
Adamsm
Alright, just look at how Rap responded to learning....well, pretty much everything Gothel told her was a lie; and how Gothel still acted like she knew best compared to the poor little idiot that was her 'daughter'. I don't think she ever really loved her, beyond how one can be fond of a plant.
Edit: Heh, well, no one can complain about the necro this time.
Post by
Monday
Yes yes necro I know I know.
But yeah, recently watched the Princess and the Frog....and didn't find Shadowman all that scary or evil; he was just corrupt and ambitious, and I was laughing my head off at the 'Friends from the Other Side'; ridiculous, as was the tarot card things...../sigh
That said, I actually like the Disney villains more in the Kingdom Heart series: Malficent is just plain frightening as the 'human' leader of the Heartless and her manipulation of Terra in BBS. The Wicked Queen of Snow White is far more vicious there(though, in the original, she did send out the Huntsman and all). The Wicked Stepmother is just a meh villain there though. And I still liked Shan Yu in KH2; they did him well.
If you were going to go for karma deaths in Disney though: Gaston gets one, Clayton gets one, Frollo gets one, and so does the Shadowman technically.
Agreed. With the inclusion of the Heartless and combination of worlds, it allows the Disney villains to be just that much more evil.
Especially Maleficent.
Post by
Interest
The Nostalgia Critic said it best.
The Devil from Fantasia.
Post by
goreblade
although a bit OT, the most evil cartoon villain is gargamel from the smurfs...
Post by
Sweetscot
Drat, I had made an edit on my post about who I thought was evil-est and why but the forum-beast ate it :(
Scar - pretty typical male lion, never bothered me as I was already an animal nut.
Ursula - tentacles freak me out, other than that...meh.
Malificent - scary!
ShadowMan - the whole controlling spirits thing was pretty freaky...and that's me seeing it as an adult...if I was a kid I think i'd have wet myself when he calls up that army of shadow dudes.
Gaston - wins the vanity award, makes me grind teeth but not scary.
Snow White's stepmom - in the original tales she's evil evil...in disney I feel sorry for her.
Cruella - plain ole nuts.
Jaffar - just overly ambitious d-bag, didn't really get to me that much...if anything fell into my smexy-villain pile.
Post by
Thror
Definitely Scar, from the Lion King. The scene where Mufasa dies is the saddest scene of cinematography (and Scar is directly responsible for it). It broke my heart when I was a child more than any cartoon I ever saw.
Post by
Lenience
The hunter who shoots Bambi's Mum.
Post by
Meggie
Disney himself, being a fascist Jew hating bully.
Post by
wildx22
Witch from Little Mermaid. Hate %^&*!es who steal people's men.
Post by
Transducer
Demona from Gargoyles.
She's had a thousand years to remove every shred of pity, remorse, compassion, morality, and goodwill from her soul, in her eternal quest of lonely vengeance.
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