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Varian tried, or at least threatened, to kill a child. Is he consumed with revenge?
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Post by
437763
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Supremacy
If I'm reading this correctly, then, in a word, no.
I haven't read the comics, but reading through this suggests that this is the sequence of events:
Garona, under the effects of a spell, attacked/is attacking Varian.
Somehow, Varian gets the upper hand.
In the middle of the fight, Me'dan stands up for his mother, saying leave her alone, as she's spellbound.
Varian tells him to get out of the way.
Anduin sticks up for Me'dan.
Me'dan does not get out of the way, after being told to by Varian.
Varian says "I've been no child killer--but for Garona's cub, I could make an exception!"
This is not consumed by revenge. Consumed by revenge would be him sitting on his throne, plotting ways to make the orcs and Garona suffer. Consumed by revenge would be him having Me'dan kidnapped and brought to some secret torture island.
I haven't read the comic you're mentioning, but from what it looks like, this isn't nearly as Snidely Whiplash as you're making it sound. The person who killed his father and had just tried (again) to kill him was, I guess, at his mercy (some clarification would be good, here). He moved in for the kill, and someone tried to stop him. He said "Move", and they didn't move. So, he showed some teeth.
I saw a TV show where a federal agent ended up in a women's prison during a prison riot. He was negotiating, or some such. At one point, one of the more unruly prisoners was making a move on him, after he had specifically told that woman to stop advancing. This is pretty much what he said:
"I have never hit a woman in my life, but so help me, if you don't back down, I will knock you on your ass."
I don't think of that character as someone who goes around, because of that, slapping around women. I don't think he's abusive. I do think in that situation, he had to let the other party know that he would maintain order and had to be listened to, even if it meant doing something he wouldn't normally do.
Again, I haven't read the materials people are referencing, but you can't say someone is consumed by revenge based on that one action. Rather, that one threat. Especially because he gave that kid two chances to move. And he doesn't have a history of this sort of thing.
Post by
Skreeran
I'll do you one better, here's the pages themselves for greater context:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/cyberman8/WOW18p11.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/cyberman8/WOW18p12.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/cyberman8/WOW18p13.jpg
I have to say Supremacy, you make a compelling defense, but you must at least agree that killing a child is wrong, regardless of the circumstances. Varian's greatest defense here is the fact that he didn't
actually
kill Med'an.
Post by
138638
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dralas
if there was a
baby
adolceant lich king would you let him life give him a mini forstmourne cause he's a child and you wouldn't kill him?
Clearly you didn't read all of my post. Like I said before, killing a child is morally wrong, and I don't give a damn about who you are, but if you knew for a certain fact that the so called child was going to either turn into something horrible or kill you, then it is different.
What he said was in no way right, but that doesn't mean though that he is evil because he said it.
Post by
Patty
What Varian said was... not justified
no just no
he was in the heat of battle upon which he fought Garona who killed his dad and in this battle even threatened the life of his son.
This is a ridiculous justification. You kill a kid to get back at an adult? Garona could have killed Varian and ended the Wyrnn Bloodline, because he watched his father being murdered. However, Garona let him live, showing a degree of self-control.
Anywho, Me'dan saved Anduin, which Anduin himself says. Yet Varian still makes the threat. Threatening to kill a child who has done nothing to you, regardless of their parents, is wrong. Are you going to try and justify it?
Post by
Adamsm
Garona could have killed Varian and ended the Wyrnn Bloodline, because he watched his father being murdered. However, Garona let him live, showing a degree of self-control.
Well I think the spell on her was only aimed at Llane, had the Shadow Council known Varian was there as well..... I think we would be down one of the Major Azerothian Monarchy's.
As for the other stuff, I've already put my thoughts down.
Post by
283679
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Post by
389776
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Someone comments on Med'an's age not matching his body (His being a child developmentally despite being like 25), and it's explained by someone or other (don't remember who at the moment), that this is because of his Draenei blood. Draenei age veeeeery slowly.
Post by
Adamsm
Yeah, Durotan and Doomhammer see a "young" draenei and think she is their ages (12-13) at the time, then they learn the Draenei age differently then orcs and realized she could be anywhere from 12-112... atleast going by the age thing: Draenei, like the WoW elves and dwarves, are usually considered to be adults by the time their 112-118, so Med'an, being quarter orc and Draenei, means he has both of those "racial" traits, the fact that an orc child even at 12 could almost be 6 feet high, and the slow aging process of the Draenei.
Post by
283679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Try this Pic
instead Orukai, makes more sense for what we've been saying. Also, put your tinfoil hat back on and go hide, the Legion is looking for you.
Post by
Skreeran
Well, you are entitled to your own opinion on whether he looks more adult or child-like.
Varian clearly knew he was a child though. He said it himself.
And I hate Garrosh with every fiber of my being that I can spare to Warcraft. I
don't
want war, and that is why I don't like Varian. He wants to kill me (at least all of my virtual personas) and all my people.
Post by
283679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
As said, he is still part-Draenei. Therefore, he may appear older than he is. if he's ~23 Human years, he is still about 5 in Draenei years I would say, but he is not a pure-Draenei. I would say he's mentally about 13, despite his physical appearance.
Post by
Adamsm
Interesting how you chose pg13 instead of page 11 where Med'an is using lightning blast and killing a Worgen with an Axe, or pg 12 where he has a staff and attacking Varian from behind. - that was all the pages i could get off that link Tauren, not Worgan. And yes the other ones are more vicious and violent, but the point of it is to look at this like Varian is killing a young person, not a full adult. Also, troll is a troll no matter what you name it.
Post by
Supremacy
I'll do you one better, here's the pages themselves for greater context:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/cyberman8/WOW18p11.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/cyberman8/WOW18p12.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/cyberman8/WOW18p13.jpg
Oh. Thanks for that. That clears up a lot.
I thought Med'an had just been standing in front of Garona, trying to save his mother, and then Varian said move, then threatened him.
I didn't know that Me'dan had just jumped at him with what looks like a staff. That kind of changes things, somewhat. Also, he's not so much, appearance wide, a child. This isn't some six year old. He looks a bit like a teenager, actually.
It looks like Varian just grabbed him and tossed him aside, then pretty much told him "stay". Regardless of what people feel about Varian in general, attitude wise, I'm pretty sure we can all at least agree that if he had really wanted to, Varian could have killed Med'an with fairly little effort. I'm speaking in a physical sense, barring magic, and all that. I can see Med'an has magic powers, and all that. I just mean Varian could have snapped his little neck, if he had a mind to.
And you know, looking at this again, I'm not even sure Varian was tossing the kid to the side, like I initially thought. It looks a little more like he was just moving him, and that other lady just kinda flew by and snatched him.
Also?
you make a compelling defense, but you must at least agree that killing a child is wrong, regardless of the circumstances. Varian's greatest defense here is the fact that he didn't actually kill Med'an.
We're not talking about whether or not the killing of a child is wrong. We're talking, I figured, about whether Varian is consumed with revenge, or if he actually tried to kill Med'an. Going back and reasserting that killing kids is wrong would be like arguing in court if someone committed a murder, then stopping to make sure everyone knows murder is wrong.
Also, I think we're also at this point even arguing if he is a "child". I mean, he just shot lightning from his fingertips, and it looks like he just killed a...boarman?
Post by
283679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Actually no, I've never said that any where in this thread, I've only said that he wasn't justified in what he was doing, as his rage had taken him over and he was prepared to kill someone, doesn't matter if it was a child, an adult or even a grandpa, for no reason beyond their blood.
It's not like he did something good here, Med'an only attacked him because he was about to kill his spell-paralyzed mother, who couldn't defend herself, and he refused to listen to his own son who told him that the strange glowing boy had just saved his life. I am a fan of King Varian, I'm just not a fan of his "kill all the greenskinned orcs" stance.
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