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Post by
ElhonnaDS
See- I WOULD be in favor of trade school options- I had friends who got their certificates in various software, their pilot's license, and other trade skills through BOCES. I wouldn't think it should be a "kick them out" mentality, as much as an option available to kids who aren't doing well, so that they can graduate with a skill set.
I would say they should still incorporate certain basic educational subjects in these vocational programs- especially English, basic math, basic computer use, etc.- that affect every-day life.
I also think it might be better to re-evaluate what kids need to be taught in public school. I think very few people need to know, to function at their jobs, advanced mathematics, chemistry, etc. for their jobs. It would be a lot more useful for people to get finance courses so they don't graduate high school and go straight into debt, have an idea about balancing a checkbook, protecting your credit, how much more they pay for things on credit cards, etc. I think that there should be some better education about economics and the political process, since these people will be voting. Maybe instead of shop classes making bird feeders, they can teach kids to spackle a hole in drywall from a doorknob, to change a tire or change their oil, how to trouble-shoot your internet, etc.
Post by
Patty
I agree with Elhonna, here.
People need to be given a chance at their literacy and numeracy, because that will be with them for the rest of their lives. Having tradeskill learning courses at A level, or whatever the equivalent elsewhere is, would be a good idea, but many vocational colleges already offer similar courses. After all, most trades require a standard of literacy/numeracy as well. Customising courses for different groups of students is the best way of ensuring that no one, or as close to that as possible, misses out because of the education system.
Post by
gamerunknown
I think that'd work for a pretty significant section of the population. At around the age of 14 I figured what I wanted to do for a degree (and sadly haven't consistently put a great deal of effort into it since) and decided that I didn't really need certain subjects for it: art and French, for instance. I went to all my classes, I did what the teacher said, but beyond that, there was no interest there. Eventually in art class, my teacher let me read in the lessons because neither of us were getting anything out of it.
In other schools, art and a second language are compulsory up to the age of 16. My grades would have probably suffered as a result had that been the case.
If I had decided I wanted to do some kind of craft, I'd probably feel similar antipathy to most subjects.
However, if this pushed back the average employment age, it'd be dangerous territory, since poorer parents would put more pressure on their children to drop out earlier and further education correlates to higher incomes on average. So there'd be a self-perpetuating cycle.
Post by
MyTie
I agree with having basic literacy, which is why I think this taking effect at high school would make more sense. Middle schoolers know basic math and reading. I'm saying we don't need to spend loads of money on high schoolers that don't learn in high school. We could send them to vocational schools. No diploma. None needed. Then, focus high school on more advanced science topics. Make it harder. Make it globally competitive, but at the same time, kids have to "make the cut" to stay in.
Make a high school diploma more like an associates level degree... or the "general" classes of a bachelors degree. Then, kids only need a core of higher education classes to get their bachelors. It makes more sense than spending 4 years in high school making spitwads and having inebriated sex.
Post by
Patty
I agree with having basic literacy, which is why I think this taking effect at high school would make more sense. Middle schoolers know basic math and reading.It's staggering in this day and age how many still don't, actually. I'm saying we don't need to spend loads of money on high schoolers that don't learn in high school. We could send them to vocational schools. No diploma. None needed. Then, focus high school on more advanced science topics. Make it harder. Make it globally competitive, but at the same time, kids have to "make the cut" to stay in.I see your point, but that runs the risk of making High School more cut throat, in a sense. I mean, it takes time for some students to adapt to new subjects, and to realise and understand the steeper learning curve (I'm speaking from experience from GCSE to A level, here), which your system simply wouldn't allow.
Make a high school diploma more like an associates level degree... or the "general" classes of a bachelors degree. Then, kids only need a core of higher education classes to get their bachelors. It makes more sense than spending 4 years in high school making spitwads and having inebriated sex.
I disagree, here. That learning curve would be far too steep. It would be too daunting.
Post by
MyTie
I see your point, but that runs the risk of making High School more cut throat, in a sense. I mean, it takes time for some students to adapt to new subjects, and to realise and understand the steeper learning curve (I'm speaking from experience from GCSE to A level, here), which your system simply wouldn't allow.
Make a high school diploma more like an associates level degree... or the "general" classes of a bachelors degree. Then, kids only need a core of higher education classes to get their bachelors. It makes more sense than spending 4 years in high school making spitwads and having inebriated sex.
I disagree, here. That learning curve would be far too steep. It would be too daunting.
It would be tough, agreed. Imagine how smart a huge chunk of our 18 year olds would be! And the ones who couldn't do it, would have knowledge they could apply. Instead we have crowds of people who know almost nothing, and have no useful knowledge, and very very few smart people at age 18, and nothing near globally competitive, while at the same time dumping loads of money into failure.
I'm not saying it would be perfect. It definitely would pose problems, but I see a net improvement. I'm saying this is loads better than what we have.
Imagine 18 year olds graduating from a school focused on construction, and 18 year olds graduating from plumbing school, and 18 year olds graduating from farming school, and 18 year olds graduating from automotive school. We'd have a ready workforce. If I owned a construction company, I'd rather hire an 18 year old grad of construction school than an 18 year old high school graduate of our current school system. Give me the diploma-less high school dropout with knowledge of how to do the job I need him to do!
I think the positive implications of this would ripple through our economy, our life expectancy, our crime rates, every aspect of American life.
Post by
gamerunknown
Oh, I just thought back to Hazlitt again and alighted at one problem with your proposal: a ready made workforce can often shift rapidly. For example, Detroit was a major center of automobile industry, but that's declining. A thousand graduates in that city specialising in automotive mechanics or whatever each year would make sense, until (say) three factories shut down. Then they're severely disadvantaged. There'd need to be more wide reaching welfare programs in place to teach transferable skills, which may need to cover materials they would have learned in regular school.
Post by
MyTie
Uhm... maybe not. I agree that many of the skills change, and some rapidly, but even considering that, I think those skills learned are still going to be widely applicable. I don't think government needs a handle on continuing adult education as well.
Post by
134377
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Those evil Bush tax cuts for his wealthy cronys are
about to expire
, thanks to Obama. Tax hikes across the board on that, and other programs. Looks like we are in for an economic disaster.
Again, well done, Democrats. I can't wait to give the government more money to give to a foreign power that wants to kill me, or dump down idiotic green energy programs that fail on an hourly basis.
Post by
gamerunknown
Looks like we are in for an economic disaster.
Do you think it was a bad thing when Moody's downgraded the US credit rating? Do you think increasing the deficit is bad?
Post by
MyTie
Looks like we are in for an economic disaster.
Do you think it was a bad thing when Moody's downgraded the US credit rating? Do you think increasing the deficit is bad?
I don't care what Moody's does. It affects me, but it is beyond my direct control, as an American. Increasing the deficit is bad. I like to think that If I were in office, I'd cut the budget by 50%, or let the government shut down if congress didn't go for it. I don't care what people thought of me, I'd cut spending massively.
Post by
557473
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
assuming some sort of sanity.
I think it may be best to view "sanity" as a grey-scale rather than a binary-state thing. If anything is going to make things decidedly more grey then I think the realities of war might.
Post by
557473
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Hollywood discriminates against conservatives.
Not really news. The fact that they finally realized that they do this is surprising, I guess.
ok... This Norway mass killer
blames video games
? Now it is personal.
Post by
asakawa
17 year-old Norwich City Football club fan finds some pictures of the new team kit on a webpage as it is being updated, "leaks" the images and is now under "criminal investigation" by police?!!
If my country really has a law that can punish a kid for noticing a website's bad management then I'll be really embarrassed. If the football club seeks to enforce that law then I'll be really angry (well, I'm already that).
The poor kid publicly apologised! They should accept responsibility and give this kid a season pass for the trouble they've put him through.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17767236
Post by
Squishalot
Well, technically it's IP theft?
Let's also be clear - it's not said that the police started the investigation after they found it it was a 17-year old, nor did they say whether they stopped the investigation after they did find out.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I'm not sure if I fully understand the technical aspect of the article. Does it mean that he was just visiting the website and the links to the photos were accidentally visible because the website was doing maintenance, and that's how he got them? Or was it that the website was under maintenance, and he used his IT knowledge to exploit that to gain access to areas he knew he wasn't supposed to be going to. I think there's a huge difference between a bug making the photos plainly accessible, and a bug that he knew a way to exploit to gain access to the photos.
Post by
Squishalot
The latter, I think. He went into the source code to find the link, so presumably, it wasn't just a web designer snafu.
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