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Armor pen Vs. agi
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Post by
144872
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lightrain
XT is a gimick fight. It's not a dps test.
How about you go do naxx 25 and compare dps on ye ol' Patchy.
Just because you like seeing your 30k FB's pop up doesn't mean anything.
For the record, that gimick fight is in favor of ArP because of the short burst durations on the heart(same as hodir with the Haste and crit buffs, the dragon as well with it's horribly slow spawn times now.. Should I go on?).
Now, if Foley got RNG'd with 2 AoE's forcing him to run off the heart right after popping zerker, I'ld ROFL!
Post by
144872
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lightrain
I'm pretty sure light well and gravity well still cast during heart, but I could be wrong..... I'm usually watching for adds and not paying attention to that stuff since I'm supposed to be tanking adds.
Post by
144872
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
LookOut
They indeed do not.
A fine example of a fight where RNG can nail your
a
ss, is Grobbulus. So I dunno, compare your numbers on that fight.
Post by
pelf
We don't do Naxx anymore. I dunno, assuming I can get 100% DPS time on a non-gimmick fight, I'll link our parse of it. I'm still about 5 pieces away from BiS, though, so I dunno if we can achieve gear parity.
Post by
Lightrain
Mkay.
I still hold that this fight is leaned toward big hittiers rather than steady dpsers. Ignis would be a better test assuming neither of you get slag pot'ed.
I also think Foley's trying to swing his big Epeen. Maybe if it wasn't for slander purposes(Foley being able to say his "uber deeps" are bigger than Aadra's), Aadra would actually show you some of his numbers.
Post by
310761
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Post by
Abraxxes
The thing about Armor Pen vs. Agility is a gear basis thing.
For example if you only have 5500 AP and 35% crit after just hitting 80 Armor Pen isn't that great of a stat for you at all really providing a rather minimal dps increase, and yet if your in Naxx 25 gear lets say with 7200 AP 50% crit etc. then Armor Pen provides an extensive amount of dps increase.
At about 50% Naxx 25 gear or higher Armor Pen becomes the stat to stack, and at ~210 ArmPen Shred idol is better, like others have said.
If you have a trinket such as Grim Toll/Mjolnir Runestone the soft cap for armor pen is 566, which is quite easy to obtain to be honest, especially if your gemming for it. After that stacking Agility becomes better, because anything above 100% for ~1/3 of your fight is useless, so agi trumps at that point.
Sure there are those that don't believe this, saying "Oh but my bleeds are 45% of my dps D:"
Well ArmPen has a high rate of dps increase as you stack more of it, higher than Agi which has also been stated. But if you have 45% of your dps as bleeds, then you probably aren't using Ferocious bite as much as you can, because you can still get a dps increase while Rip/SR drop only for a little while mind you, but it does increase none the less. 12s combined from Rip/SR is the minimum which people know, and that does make it so Rip or SR drops, depends which you choose.
All this was stated in Nightcrowler's guide, credit given where its due.
I really don't see the point for the topic when its been proven, ./shrug.
Post by
Aadramelekh
and at ~210 ArmPen Shred idol is betterStrangely enough, I have 341 ArP rating from gear now and I have tested Shred Idol versus Rip Idol on the lvl 80 target dummy. I did 6 DPS tests, 5 minutes each. 3 with Shred Idol and 3 with Rip Idol. Strangely enough, my DPS was around 4750-4800 DPS with Rip Idol and around 4600 with Shred Idol. And this is on the lvl 80 dummy, which has less armor than the Boss Dummy - where Shred loses even more of its punching power.
Post by
Kutkh
1. I was joking around...poking fun at Aadramelekh, like I always do. You should learn to not take what I say so literal.
2. I
Do
beat him.. and will gladly post more screen shots to prove it.
3. Barskin
ISNT
tied to global cooldowns... so.. grats on that!
4. Who dies to death runes? I mean really?
You know you dont actually have to be behind the mob to shred it right? You can shred from the sides as well? Grats at trying to be a smart ass though.. I always enjoy a good laugh.
You dont sound like you are laughing. :P
And gz to yourself as well for thinking that Barkskin is the only survival cooldown average raid cats have.
P.S. Since I am reading your BS I just stick along (as in - cant help myself to post BS as well), which doesnt mean I am meaning any of this seriously. And yes, I
AM
enjoying this, unlike you. :P
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
310761
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kutkh
Cats have only 2 survival cooldowns afaik, barkskin and survival instinct, and none of them uses GCD. So I don´t understand what you meant by these sentence.
Apparently I was bull^&*!ting.
Kutkh
Post by
Abraxxes
and at ~210 ArmPen Shred idol is betterStrangely enough, I have 341 ArP rating from gear now and I have tested Shred Idol versus Rip Idol on the lvl 80 target dummy. I did 6 DPS tests, 5 minutes each. 3 with Shred Idol and 3 with Rip Idol. Strangely enough, my DPS was around 4750-4800 DPS with Rip Idol and around 4600 with Shred Idol. And this is on the lvl 80 dummy, which has less armor than the Boss Dummy - where Shred loses even more of its punching power.
You would be right on most accounts but the thing is . . . Training Dummies don't factor in Armor Penetration. They are not an accurate way of testing it at all, go test on a real boss >.>
Armor Pen > Agi until the soft cap.
Btw. my dps unbuffed is ~5k with a measly 23.4% armor pen, which is less than 341, so you may be doing something wrong. ./cheers to pulling in first few seconds and getting rezzed on half of fights.
Post by
pelf
I don't even
have
Survival Instincts in my cat spec...
I'm not sure if it's a function of my choice of ArP over Agility for gems, but my damage is significantly lower, the fewer buffs and debuffs I have. With my Ulduar 10 group, I post numbers on the order of thousand(s) less DPS than with my 25 groups. I can only imagine that on a target dummy, without Sunder/Expose and all the other things I get from a heroic raid, my damage would post much lower than someone who is providing more CP generation by virtue of a higher unbuffed crit rate.
Perhaps another distinction to make is that ArP gemming relies more heavily on synergy with class buffs and debuffs than Agility gemming. I'm not sure.
Post by
Aadramelekh
Btw. my dps unbuffed is ~5kPost a screenshot, please. 5 minutes long, 2 Berserk usages. And an Armory link if you will. Thank you.
Post by
Lightrain
Ya, unless you are going to raid buff and have a shammy/prot and arms warrior/hunter/rogue/DK/Ret paladin help you pump dps numbers, you will be lower.
If you didn't catch it in previous posts, ArP is based on already having a boat load of AP and crit. You need to have really good gear to make ArP more DPS than Agility. This includes a ton of raid buffing and such to cross the AP/crit value to make it viable(which I don't know, possibly somewhere in Nightcrowler's guide).
If you are off tanking, you should probably stick with agility unless you have 2 full sets of feral gear.
As Pelf said, a full Kitty spec doesn't have SI in it, but going bear is very easy to do.
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