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Armor pen Vs. agi
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Post by
HZAres
TI suppose my point was that without static stats, you're relying on a statistical average of a proc. If you look at it that way, then those two trinkets aren't actually worth the value of their proc as there are times where your ArP is zero, times when you have one up and times when you have both. Look at it another way: if you had a trinket that procced 1200 Agility, would you wear that and stack Strength to the exclusion of Agility?
Right the double trinket is kinda like the way DST was for hunters in BC where if you had it you didnt have to stack haste at all because it would haste cap you on proc so you can focus on the other stats.
So if you dont like the RNGness of the double trinket setup you can sub out one of the trinkets (grim toll) for the greatness card and make up for the hit else where and with a agi setup you can still score 7907 dps well on par with the pure armor pen built.
I'm just saying armor pen is not the only way to go and the difference is so marginal that I dont see why anyone would gimp perfectly good tanking gear by gemming for it
Single Trinket Agi Setup
Post by
HZAres
True.. that could have been what he meant... although i dont really see how that would affect my dps? Since the tank will be moving out of the aoe as well. It is possible to dps and run at the same time. Who knew right?
could be vashj /rolleyes
Post by
pelf
I'm just saying armor pen is not the only way to go and the difference is so marginal that I dont see why anyone would gimp perfectly good tanking gear by gemming for it
Well, which is it? The difference is marginal
-or-
you'll gimp your gear by gemming for ArP? :)
I think the conclusion people are coming to everywhere is that you do what you want. Either, or, some of both -- a well-played feral is going to produce good numbers as long as you select your gems and enchants from Agility and Armor Penetration.
Post by
Aadramelekh
One other thing, for the sake of fun numbers:
2247 Agility / 63% crit FTW
. I'll be back with more after I get more T8.
Post by
HZAres
Well, which is it? The difference is marginal
-or-
you'll gimp your gear by gemming for ArP? :)
the dps difference is marginal but missing that 200 agi when tanking however is another story =P
Post by
240085
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Post by
144872
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Post by
56394
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Post by
pelf
One other thing, for the sake of fun numbers:
2247 Agility / 63% crit FTW
. I'll be back with more after I get more T8.
And I've got 56% crit with full ArP gems.
Post by
Aadramelekh
Also it is 25%
LESS
efficient when the boss has Sunder Armor and faerie fire on it.
This is so not true. It's infact the opposite.
1000 armor is 20% reduction
30000 armor is 70% reduction
50% reduction for 30 times the armor?
Math is hard, isn't it?...
Let me explain again.
A mob has 10000 armor. If the player has 30% Armor Penetration, then that mob has only 7000 armor against that player's physical attacks. If the mob has Sunder Armor and Faerie Fire on it, it has 25% less armor from the start. That means 7500 armor. The player now comes to attack the mob with his 30% ArP. 30% from 7500 = 2250. And guess what? 2250 is 25% less than 3000. The effective armor reduction from ArP is 25% less effective in this situation. In the end, the mob has 10000-(2500+2250)= 5250 armor left (which means that SA+FF+player_ArP go up to 47.5% armor reduction).
This is true if the SA+FF priority mechanic applies here (meaning that player ArP applies
after
SA+FF) - which many sources claim to be true. Other sources say that ArP stacks linearly with SA+FF and it is applied to the initial mob armor value. This is a matter in which I'd like some enlightenment. I admit I don't know for sure how ArP stacks with SA and FF.
Post by
Kutkh
Poke-in-the-eye.
True.. that could have been what he meant... although i dont really see how that would affect my dps? Since the tank will be moving out of the aoe as well. It is possible to dps and run at the same time. Who knew right?
It can affect your DPS in 2 ways:
1) if you are popping survival cooldowns, those are GCDs spent on something else but shred
2) dead people and cats don't DPS :P
Since you are supercat and you dont die in death runes and your prio is not running out of it, I'll try to point out what danger awaits us mortal cats. Try to notice subtle difference between damage done to tank and you in line tank-Molgeim-you while you are shredding in death rune. Zero moment, when it spawns brings damage to both tank and you ticking every half a second; tank moves with mob behind him; you follow the mob, meaning you are still in death rune not caring about staying out of it; while irrelevant to immortal beings, average cats' tendency is to die when acting like this.
Btw, what I meant clearly was grass around Hogger. It becomes lethal if you stand there for more than 2 seconds.
On a more serious note, I love these posts with Agi vs ArP charts. I only wish we could all meet in one raid and measure e-peens and bash on forums afterwards.
So far I am using old agility way, while helping another feral get ArP gear. I'll post numbers when we get very very close gear. I'm unbeatable for now only because I have much better weap (and maybe playstyle). Will post numbers if they turn out interesting.
Post by
310761
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Post by
144872
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Post by
Zarantai
just throwin this out there... on the world first algalon 25 kill by ensidia, feral druid with armor pen gemming topped the meters.
Post by
144872
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Post by
342756
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Post by
Aadramelekh
on the world first algalon 25 kill by ensidia, feral druid with armor pen gemming topped the meters.
Another link to a top 10 us guild druid
So what? Notice that the second link druid does have some other gems than ArP (agility and all stats).
I really
do not care
that the ferals in other guilds are using ArP rating in their sockets. I get mine from gear. Anything else (sockets) means Agility. And guess what - I do just as much DPS as those. Go figure, I don't follow the ArP fashion trend and I'm still producing comparable DPS.
And here's another comparison between my damage done and his damage done from 2 days ago - Vezax kill:
Me (Agility) ~5700 DPS (2,557,080 damage)
vs
Him (ArP) ~5430 DPS(2,445,814)
. I did almost 5% more than him. Again. Go figure. And I still had Journey's End, while he had Lotrafen, Spear of the Damned from the previous Vezax kill (fortunately I got mine too).
Post by
144872
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Post by
Aadramelekh
I did. I don't like losing crit. I am a crit w
h
ore. Got any problems with that?
Post by
pelf
Foley do you honestly think Aa would do anything to stop the big numbers showing up?
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