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[3.1.2 ptr] FnB - the change we've been looking for?
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Post by
SignupSucks
Hahaha, no way would a 30% increase to Incinerate's bonus damage from Immolate increase Incinerate's damage by 24%. In my limited testing, my incinerates went from ~2400 to ~2600, a whole 8% difference. That number includes the bonus getting increased by Emberstorm and Felguard's Master Demonologist, but I made sure to remove my Lightweave cloak and Sundial trinket so that automatic +spellpower effects were not skewing my results.
The fault with GC's comparison is that Incinerate's bonus damage does not account for spellpower scaling. Naked with no spellpower, Incinerate with Immolate might go from 1000 to 1250, 25% increase, but at 1500 spellpower, Incinerate would go from (I'm making up numbers) 1750 to 2000, a 13% increase.
Disclaimer
: I am 90% certain that my interpretation is correct. It is possible that Incinerate's bonus damage does scale with spellpower, but I am almost certain that it does not, as the limited testing I have done does not reflect an increase larger than can be accounted for by talented +damage% sources. Please correct me if I am wrong.
On an unrelated note, I am annoyed how the changes will require you waste a backdraft charge on reapplying immolate.
Post by
asakawa
erk!
Decimation now only works on targets below 30% health. (down from 35%)
sneaky swines!
edit to add:
@signupsucks
i think that GC's explanation in
this thread
makes it pretty clear that actually the bonus damage does scale and that this change to FnB is far better than we'd thought.
the change doesn't give 30% of a small addition. it gives an extra 30% straight damage multiplier! this is good stuff.
i also wasn't aware that the incinerate bonus damage worked the way he describes so it's always nice to hear some plain numbers from the horse's mouth (so to speak). it's a slight shame that the FnB bonus is additive and not multiplicative but i'm sure we can live with it any way.
Post by
82219
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316719
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Post by
Spudnik
I play arena fairly regularly this season, been running a deep destro spec for a while now. Personally I see this as a nerf to Destro PvP mostly because of the nerf to Nether Protection and Glyph of Conflagate.
The reason for that is (and I'm only gonna cover Conflag since NetherProt is self-explanatory) is that the only way for me to seriously damage anything (which should hopefully result in a kill) is the cast Immolate, followed by Conflag and then by a quick burst of ChaosBolt, Incinerate spam until Conflag is up and then popping that again. Most kills are a result of that last Conflag as people see the incoming burst damage of my ChaosBolts and Incinerates and turn and run. At that point I pursue, making use of the only "real" burst we have. Now this relies on Immolate being up and running on the target, if that is not the case then there wont be any kill (most of the time). So my point is that our PvP burst needs to have a setup (the initial Immo and Conflag) to be effective and by no longer having the old Glyph of Conflag effect, they seriously nerfed our fairly weak PvP burst.
My 2 cents.
Edit:
Skragg put in some simpler words so I'll just quote him:
What was our bread and butter is now gone with the wind.
Against a good team your Immolate never staid on the target. You just had to get it on there and use Conflag asap, for the odd chance of facing a team that couldnt remove the spell you had the nice bonus to the Incinerate.
Now Immolate does less damage, and is always consumed by the now weaker Conflag.
Start looking for a good healer and reroll affliction, Destruction is the ugly red haired step child, and blizz is putting them up for adoption!
Post by
Razmortis
I don't see the hazzle of using Conflag after 14 seconds after casting. Gives it a little complexity to it, and I like that.
Anyone more than me smelling castsequence macros on their way? ;)
Might go like
this
after the patch, since my darling is broken. :(
Post by
SignupSucks
http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t48311-simulationcraft_post_3_1_specs/p58/
(Caelock's post, #1450)
As I expected, GC seems to be incorrect about how the bonus damage functions. While it is possible it is implemented as a percentile effect, and that the tooltip simply states it as a number rather than the percent it draws from, the bonus is affected solely by the base damage of Incinerate. This means simply that it does not scale, and that the new FnB - as we know the mechanics now - is a flat damage addition.
It is possible they will be altering Incinerate to work as advertised (so that the bonus scales with spellpower even as Incinerate's damage scales from spellpower), but I highly doubt it, not with the numbers GC is quoting. If incinerate's bonus suddenly becomes 25% of Incinerate's damage (as opposed to Incinerate's base damage), for a total of 55% damage with FnB, then he is saying my incinerates for 2400 should jump to 3700 just for putting Immolate on the target. And this number is unbuffed outside of a raid; raid buffed, I should expect my ~7000 Incinerates to go to 10k non-crit?
I don't think so. He's incorrect about something; either the base functionality of Incinerate's bonus damage (the more likely explanation) or the numbers are inaccurate.
Post by
asakawa
hmm, yeah, EJ does seem to be distressingly correct about this.
at the moment though, i'm happy to see that the changes are
intended
to be a buff to destro PvE (even if the current iteration hasn't achieved that goal) and happy to wait and see what happens from here.
Post by
117994
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Post by
asakawa
When you see the other nerfs to destro you know that this was never intended to increase the PvE side of Destro but to eliminate it as a viable arena spec, and as a token they made it do a little more in raiding.
i don't think this is true. i think that the nether prot change is the change that they wanted to make to PvP and that the other ones are intended to be a better solution to the inelegant conflag hotfix.
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244066
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82219
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304001
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307579
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289853
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Post by
adc89
: \ im still having trouble deciding what spec to be since last patch, i think im gonna take a break from my lock until they stop screwing around with us
Post by
82219
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289853
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Post by
Maxlock
and still i don't think 20 k conflags were op at all when ive crit with a 15 k soulfire and im not even in full 7.5 yet and im missing a trinket and a better weapon.
Great:D.... You have just compared a 4 second-casting time-spell (in PvP gear min 3,5) to an instant cast.
You really dont consider that OP when you instant someone for 20k, but you must spend 4 secs casting a Soul Fire to deal 15k DMG...
Bit of imba:P
i agree with you..
i mean how dare we ask for a 10 seconds cooldown instant spell that requires another spell to be active on that target in order to use it to crit for 20k?
we're not arcane mages.
Post by
117994
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