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Question for you experienced warrior tanks.
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Post by
254747
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
NeotericReunion
Well, to answer your question from what I see on my server, people take what they get. In terms of progression, our server sees equal use of all tanks. I have never been a last resort tank, and have not heard of any one on my server being used as a last resort tank.
Onto that person who said this, they are...rather ignorant. While I agree we have a threat "issue" (it's not even an issue, especially with Vigilance on a person who's doing high TPS), it's not bad enough to totally screw over the group. I found it almost amusing this quote mentions we have lack of AoE control, while Druids have it worse than us in that department. Also, it should be noted that it's not a "bug" to generate less rage. It's the broken mechanic of how rage works, and hopefully 3.1 will fix the issue somewhat.
Either way, try not to listen to people who flat out push you down. It's not healthy.
Post by
Limpa
Either way, try not to listen to people who flat out push you down. It's not healthy.
Quote of the day.
Post by
181645
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Post by
Sakkura
Our threats lower than other tanks
No it isn't. Our threat is better than death knights' threat, about equal with druids and somewhat behind paladins overall. And that's before the nerfs to other classes and the 5% buff to our damage in 3.1.
Our only problems lie in the survivability area, where we along with paladins have been left behind. That is hopefully being fixed with the 3.1 nerfs to both druids and death knights.
Post by
304116
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Post by
331063
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Post by
Sakkura
Actually it is.. We have atleast 1 tank of each type in our guild, we all got mostly the best gear the game has to offer atm.. While tanking a boss that stands still and gives enough rage to spam everything at it i get trampled by all other tanking classes.. and talking about thrash mobs in raids warriors are almost useless if you have another tank thats not a warrior, only one we can compete against on thrash mobs are druids.. But palas and DK's whipps our butts 6-0 in threat generation on thrash mobs, on bosses even druids go past us..
Vigiliance wont save you, it just merely gives you a small boost on boss fights but on thrash mobs its useless as its long term effect doesnt get to kick in..
Actually it isn't. Tanks generate the most threat, so put your vigilance on other tanks when they are present. That also makes them take 3% less damage, so it's a win-win situation. And yeah, sustained 6-7k TPS is pretty good on non-buffing encounters (ignore numbers from thaddius etc., they are skewed by encounter-specific buffs), by any standard. That would allow a rogue to do 9½-11k DPS without pulling aggro (or wasting time on vanish or lolfeint), or a fury warrior to do 9-10½k DPS without pulling aggro. And those are just the TPS numbers I get in my balanced gear; more threat-obsessed gear would obviously generate bigger numbers.
Death knights tend to be stuck significantly lower on threat, druids around the same area as warriors and paladins a bit ahead.
As for AoE threat - who the heck cares if one tank takes aggro off another tank on trash? Trash won't kill a tank unless you're mucking about. DPS (and healers, obviously) won't take aggro off the warrior, and that's what matters.
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172119
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302982
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97385
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336973
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Post by
NeotericReunion
Tanks generate the most threat, so put your vigilance on other tanks when they are present. That also makes them take 3% less damage, so it's a win-win situation.
Too bad most tanks are slow and think this is actually bad for them. The tanks I refer to are the ones who hate Vigilance on them while they DPS a fight they aren't tanking in Righteous Fury/Frost Presence/Bear Form/Defensive Stance. I hope I'm not the only one who's had the "pleasure" of meeting one. I have to yell at them for one of two things (sometimes both): pulling threat (see trying)/taunting to become the "star of the show", or constantly clicking Vigilance off of them because they think it's something bad for their health.
Edit number #219,324,108:
Looks like Druids will get their AoE threat fixed up in 3.1. Good for them considering the nerf the size of a small meteor they are receiving. This means to disregard what I mentioned about Druids in my first post.
Post by
axhed
back in the old days, when we had too much defensive stats (therefore not enough rage from incoming damage, and not enough outgoing damage for rage/threat) we swapped out some tanking gear for dps gear.
i always had two tank armor sets on my itemrack bar: one with maxxed defense, and one uncrittable but hit capped for max threat.
i wore max mitigation for the hard hitting bosses and i wore the max threat set for the trash and easy bosses. i also was constantly swapping a piece here and there out and back to try and strike the right balance.
but then again, i haven't tanked since july '07 so things might have changed.
Post by
Lucid
TLDR : Yes, Warriors are the inferior tanking class, but this should only make tanking more difficult for you, not bench you for content unless you're on the cutting edge of content.
------
Understand your a warrior, the last tank a progression guild will take to a raid.
I agree with this, however 'progression guild' implies guilds who are min/maxing by small margins. A good warrior will beat a bad tank of any other class. The main reason this is true is because in a progression raid that demands the most from each person, a protection warrior brings
nothing
a fury warrior or another class can't bring. The only typical unique buffs a prot warrior brings is sunder, demo shout, and commanding shout. Outside of our cooldowns, a paladin does everything else a warrior can and a ton more (auras, rezzing, healing, real raid buffs) and can do everything a warrior can but better ( aoe tanking, damage contribution, avoidance, mitigation, effective health, time-to-live). Paladins certainly do eclipse warriors in usefulness.
That being said, these things will not apply to you unless you're at cutting edge raid content.
Do not take this kind of advice from the top 1% raiders unless you intend to be one yourself.
I realize I am an inferior tank in many respects, but I'm still itemized well, geared well and capable of tanking every current encounter. Typically speaking, any real guild should take you because you're a good player, regardless of your class. The margin of difficulty and strain added to your guild by being a warrior as opposed to a better tank class shouldn't be a huge factor unless you're trying to do guild firsts. The difficulty of current content should make runs slower and more difficult with warriors but certainly not impossible by any means.
A lot of people will tell you that they were a warrior and MT'ed everything and they don't use anything else. These are often situations in which they haven't bothered trying a paladin or DK, they compare themselves to much lesser geared or skilled tanks of other classes, or they simply had great healers to compensate.
Post by
Porcell
A lot of people will tell you that they were a warrior and MT'ed everything and they don't use anything else. These are often situations in which they haven't bothered trying a paladin or DK, they compare themselves to much lesser geared or skilled tanks of other classes, or they simply had great healers to compensate.
You just said yourself, not a paragraph before, that all this junk about "warriors are inferior" only really applies if you are talking about top 1% guilds and bleeding edge content.
If a DK or Druid can take 2% less damage, or a Paladin can do 3% more threat; it doesn't matter. If you are good at your class and know what you are doing, there's no reason a warrior tank shouldn't be getting into raids.
And yes, I am saying this from the perspective of being a warrior tank and having MTed everything currently in game. The only difficult encounter where I can see other tanking classes have a very clear advantage is Sarth with 3 Drakes. That's it. That's all. Beyond that, Warrior Tanks are extremely capable of tanking anything that any other class can.
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