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A Question for All of you Climate People (Now about Other Stuff!)
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Post by
Laihendi
No, Laihendi hasn't been brainwashed, because he's gone to a secular school. Secular school are neither for or against any type of religion, so people learn to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions, instead of having teachers cram their beliefs down the throats of their students.
You say god wrote the bible through humans. You basically just admitted that you don't even know who actually wrote it, and yet you live your life by it.
I can say the same for you.
That doesn't make it right when you say it. Saying science is wrong is like saying math is wrong, or history is wrong. It isn't, you're wrong.
Post by
Queggy
No, Laihendi hasn't been brainwashed, because he's gone to a secular school. Secular school are neither for or against any type of religion, so people learn to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions, instead of having teachers cram their beliefs down the throats of their students.
Wow, there is so much wrong with this statement I'm not even going to touch it with a ten-foot long pole. Even someone against religion can hopefully see how messed up this statement is.
You say god wrote the bible through humans. You basically just admitted that you don't even know who actually wrote it, and yet you live your life by it.
/facepalm
GOD WROTE IT! Is that clear enough for you? If you want the names of humans then Moses, Isaiah, David, Solomon, Luke, Paul, and Matthew are just a few.
That doesn't make it right when you say it. Saying science is wrong is like saying math is wrong, or history is wrong. It isn't, you're wrong.
It doesn't make it right when you say it either. In Colombus's day common science theory said the world was flat. Colombus begged to differ. Was he wrong?
Post by
Laihendi
GOD didn't write it. The existence of all of those people is questionable at best.
And as to the first thing you quoted, there's nothing wrong with it, and you won't touch it with a 10-foot poll because you know it.
It doesn't make it right when you say it either. In Colombus's day common science theory said the world was flat. Colombus begged to differ. Was he wrong?
That's not what science said, that's what the church said.
Post by
Queggy
GOD didn't write it. The existence of all of those people is questionable at best.
And as to the first thing you quoted, there's nothing wrong with it, and you won't touch it with a 10-foot poll because you know it.
Allright, first off -
GOD didn't write it. The existence of all of those people is questionable at best.
We know who wrote plenty of really old novels such as the Illiad. That was thousands of years ago, yet their names aren't called into question.
No, Laihendi hasn't been brainwashed, because he's gone to a secular school. Secular school are neither for or against any type of religion
So, if you try to pray in the middle of class they aren't going to yell at you? Or if in science class you bring up the possibility of creationism they aren't going to tell you to stuff it instead of listening and debating calmly with you?
so people learn to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions, instead of having teachers cram their beliefs down the throats of their students.
Teachers don't force you to learn evolution in science class? If you try to tell them that some of what they're saying goes against your beliefs they aren't going to try to keep forcing you to learn evolution?
That's not what science said, that's what the church said.
Oh really? I'm too lazy to go look that one up right now, so what about Galileo and the planets orbiting Earth not the other way around?
Post by
Laihendi
We know who wrote plenty of really old novels such as the Illiad. That was thousands of years ago, yet their names aren't called into question.
Nobody with any credibility claims that Homer without a doubt existed, and many question now whether he was real or not.
So, if you try to pray in the middle of class they aren't going to yell at you? Or if in science class you bring up the possibility of creationism they aren't going to tell you to stuff it instead of listening and debating calmly with you?
If you're muslim or something and have to pray at a certain time of the day, then no one will stop you as long as you do it in a manner that does not disrupt the class. If you're christian, there's no reason to just start praying in the middle of class. And no one brings up creationism in a science class because
religion has nothing to do with science.
Teachers don't force you to learn evolution in science class? If you try to tell them that some of what they're saying goes against your beliefs they aren't going to try to keep forcing you to learn evolution?
Teachers teach it because their job is to educate all credible theories that are backed up by overwhelming evidence. They still teach it as a theory, not as fact, but any biology teacher who can be taken the slightest bit seriously either believes in evolution or believes that it is highly likely. Whether you choose to believe it is up to you, but the fact is that the is overwhelming evidence supporting evolution, and none indicating that it is false.
Post by
Fhoulan
I absolutely believe that everyone has a right to their own beliefs, but the bible was written by man, and as such holds as much credibility as any other book ever written. In fact, were it not the bible it would fall under the "fantasy" section in a bookstore. Religion is the single greatest motivating force out there. Countless wars were made possible solely by using religious beliefs to manipulate people into fighting, Look at the Crusades, the message was that no matter what crimes/sins you had commited, you would be forgiven and gain entry into heaven if you agreed to kill/fight in their name.
People need to be able to explain what they don't understand, and long ago pretty much everything needed an explanation. "Miracles" are in the eye of the beholder. Before we had our libraries of medical journals and medicines, anytime a person appeared to be on the verge of death and then turned around for the better, it was a miracle. Now we know that certain illnesses just behave that way. Also, put it in perspective. We perceive miracles by things we have no explanation for. In that case, there are countless miracles happening every day for every other species on the planet, as none of them can fathom what we would see as easily explained occurences.
For the small portion of people that truly have faith for completely unselfish reasons, I give you major props. Most people need it as a security blanket though, for a few reasons:
People need to feel that there are longterm consequences to their actions, otherwise there would be a hell of a lot more chaos from people only concerned with their own selfish needs.
People need to believe that their is a purpose to their being. A fly lives, procreates, and dies. It doesn't have a greater purpose, and it doesn't seek one.
And by far the largest contributing factor of the faithful masses: Our intellect meets our mortality (aka fear). Nobody wants to believe that when we die, that is it. That we are worm food. That there is no eternal afterlife, no angels, no being rewarded for your selfless acts. I don't know what I believe, but I tell you this: even if there is absolutley nothing to come after I die, I could die any given day without fear. I live, love, help others, and always try and be a good person. And for me, ending my days as the best person I could be is all that I need.
Post by
Laihendi
Oh really? I'm too lazy to go look that one up right now, so what about Galileo and the planets orbiting Earth not the other way around?
Are you kidding? The church banned his writings, sentenced him to imprisonment and later house arrest for the rest of his life. The vatican church didn't admit that he was right until 1992 when the pope made an official statement. His offense was "heresy". They had all the same arguments against him now that you have against evolution. And back then his theory was accepted by the scientific community, while the church tried to stamp it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo#Church_controversy
Post by
Queggy
If you're christian, there's no reason to just start praying in the middle of class. What if they see a reason and you don't? Are you not now being intolerant? i thought secular schools were tolerant of everything. And no one brings up creationism in a science class because religion has nothing to do with science.
If creationism is not real is it not at the very least a theory? Shouldn't they entertain teh notion and discuss it?
Teachers teach it because their job is to educate all credible theories that are backed up by overwhelming evidence. Creationism is at the very least a theory, yet they don't educate about that. Or if they do it is from a biased viewpoint.They still teach it as a theory, not as fact, Really? I thought you've been saying this whole time that Evolution was obviously true? but any biology teacher who can be taken the slightest bit seriously either believes in evolution or believes that it is highly likely. Aren't they being biased now against other Teachers just because they don't believe in a "theory". Whether you choose to believe it is up to you, but the fact is that the is overwhelming evidence supporting evolution, and none indicating that it is false. You've never shown me any evidence for it, but I have seen that all the evidence seems to be against it.
Are you kidding? The church banned his writings, sentenced him to imprisonment and later house arrest for the rest of his life. The vatican church didn't admit that he was right until 1992 when the pope made an official statement. His offense was "heresy". They had all the same arguments against him now that you have against evolution. And back then his theory was accepted by the scientific community, while the church tried to stamp it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo#Church_controversy
I think I see the problem here. When you say church you mean the catholic church. I wouldn't really classify them as "believers". They have their own religion going basically.
Post by
Laihendi
You're joking right? It's all christianity, it's all the same thing. In fact, their church is many centuries older than yours.
Post by
Queggy
You're joking right? It's all christianity, it's all the same thing. In fact, their church is many centuries older than yours.
Christianity as we know it started roughly around the time after Jesus' death when he told them to go to the four corners of the Earth and to preach. I say they aren't really Christians becasue they believe many things taht go against what the Bible teaches. For one thing Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Yet Catholics pray to mary to go to Jesus on their behalf. Also they believe only by good works can they get to heaven, and that if their bad works outweigh the good they can lose their salvation. They also believe that they have to go to ordained priests to get forgiven of their sins.
Post by
Laihendi
If you're christian, there's no reason to just start praying in the middle of class. What if they see a reason and you don't? Are you not now being intolerant? i thought secular schools were tolerant of everything. And no one brings up creationism in a science class because religion has nothing to do with science.
If creationism is not real is it not at the very least a theory? Shouldn't they entertain teh notion and discuss it?
Teachers teach it because their job is to educate all credible theories that are backed up by overwhelming evidence. Creationism is at the very least a theory, yet they don't educate about that. Or if they do it is from a biased viewpoint.They still teach it as a theory, not as fact, Really? I thought you've been saying this whole time that Evolution was obviously true? but any biology teacher who can be taken the slightest bit seriously either believes in evolution or believes that it is highly likely. Aren't they being biased now against other Teachers just because they don't believe in a "theory". Whether you choose to believe it is up to you, but the fact is that the is overwhelming evidence supporting evolution, and none indicating that it is false. You've never shown me any evidence for it, but I have seen that all the evidence seems to be against it.
Are you kidding? The church banned his writings, sentenced him to imprisonment and later house arrest for the rest of his life. The vatican church didn't admit that he was right until 1992 when the pope made an official statement. His offense was "heresy". They had all the same arguments against him now that you have against evolution. And back then his theory was accepted by the scientific community, while the church tried to stamp it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo#Church_controversy
I think I see the problem here. When you say church you mean the catholic church. I wouldn't really classify them as "believers". They have their own religion going basically.
Laihendi isn't a teacher at a secular school, he's a student. He's allowed to display his opinions.
Creationism is a religious theory, not a scientific theory, it has absolutely no scientific basis, and therefore no place in a science class.
Laihendi is saying it is a fact, but once again, he DOES NOT REPRESENT ANY PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM.
The Biology teachers aren't being biased by having their own beliefs, that's ridiculous. They don't force their beliefs down others. But it's a biology class, evolution is gonna come up, because it is a very VIABLE theory concerning how creatures have come to be how they are today.
And if you want evidence for it, open a damn textbook.
Post by
L33tsauce
You know, I find this thread is just getting more and more hilarious.
All Queggy is doing is providing bad evidence.
All Laihendi is doing is providing posts that can all be basically be broken down to "Whatever you just said, I'm right, you're wrong, don't try to question it cause science says so".
Although I guess it's only funny to me, because I'm the middle edge of the sword.
Post by
Queggy
Laihendi isn't a teacher at a secular school, he's a student. He's allowed to display his opinions.
Creationism is a religious theory, not a scientific theory, it has absolutely no scientific basis, and therefore no place in a science class.
Laihendi is saying it is a fact, but once again, he DOES NOT REPRESENT ANY PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM.
The Biology teachers aren't being biased by having their own beliefs, that's ridiculous. They don't force their beliefs down others. But it's a biology class, evolution is gonna come up, because it is a very VIABLE theory concerning how creatures have come to be how they are today.
And if you want evidence for it, open a damn textbook.
/facepalm
Wow, how is evolution a viable theory and not creationism?
Edit - All Queggy is doing is providing bad evidence. I'm getting flustered and mad and can't think straight because Laihendi is providing posts that can all be basically be broken down to "Whatever you just said, I'm right, you're wrong, don't try to question it cause science says so".
Post by
Skyfire
/facepalm
Wow, how is evolution a viable theory and not creationism?
Because we have third-party evidence that that is how the world works. The only evidence that creationism has is first-party.
Post by
Fhoulan
Because we have third-party evidence that that is how the world works. The only evidence that creationism has is first-party.
^What Sky said. There are countless examples of evolution in regards to plants and insects, of course the fanatics could claim that God is dipping His hands into every instance of it. Of course when you're fighting baseless claims, don't expect to be able to win.
Post by
Queggy
Because we have third-party evidence that that is how the world works. The only evidence that creationism has is first-party.
I choose to disagree, but obviously we aren't going to change each other's minds. The main thing that's annoying me right now though is Laihendi, I was going to end the discussion pages ago, but then he came in here and started acting whatever. :\
Post by
Fhoulan
Personally, I believe that the Sun God Helios rides his horse-driven chariot across the sky each day to make the sun rise and set. There's even a book I read that backs up my beliefs, true story.
The good part about this ^, Christianity (and/or any other religion) didn't shoot my beautiful beliefs down, science did O.o *waves magic syringe* *POOF! cloned sheep appears*
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Queggy
Personally, I believe that the Sun God Helios rides his horse-driven chariot across the sky each day to make the sun rise and set. There's even a book I read that backs up my beliefs, true story.
I realize what you are trying to do, but for the sake of the argument -
Why then do we have pictures of the sun? Shouldn't it be pictures of him and his chariot?
Post by
73830
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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