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Moonkin eclipse
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Post by
ljudsnubbe
Is the moonkin talent
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=48525
worth it?
Ive read a lot of different oppinions about this. Many peoplw say its a good talent but the majority seems to think its to difficult to time it right considering the short duration of the buff, lag etc, and even if you do everything right it seems to give a relative small dps-increase.
I also wanna know what rotation to use if I decide to specc Eclipse. Using wrath to procc eclipse and then spam SF seem to be the most popular. But what about MF? do I cast it before I IS+Wrath, or do I wait and cast it when Eclipse has procced? (ye I got
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=57851
)
And btw, I only pve
Post by
303619
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
285753
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Celdhyrean
Eclipse is a mandatory talent to achieve high damage in raids. I don't have the sheet's right here to tell you how much of a dps increase you get through it but it is certainly noticeable. The one that provides the best increase is the crit to SF one.
However it is RNG dependant in several ways :
- you need to crit to proc it, and then the crit needs to proc the SF eclipse
- during the duration of the eclipse, you can get lucky or unlunky strings of crits too
Being in a raid alleviates things because of the much higher crit rate (+10-13% crit is easy to get in a normal raid composition) and additional haste (more casts during the proc).
Having said that, it's not necessarily one of the talents i would take at first, when you need to have all mana regen talents to survive the long fights. It is however one of the first you should spec into when you have the points and gear for it.
@Busfro : depends on how fast they die, if they live less than 10s then it's not really worth it.
As for Hurricane, 3 seems right
Post by
ljudsnubbe
Ok, thx for the info but I got some more questions about the dots, when do I refresh them? Is it worth it to refresh IS+MF even when eclipse has procced and Im SF-spamming? Or maybe refresh MF as soon as eclipse has procced?
The question why I ask is that Im used to play a shadowpriest and having 100% dot-uptime is more important then anything for SP, all other abilitys & proccs come in second hand.
But what I guess I need to do as moonkin is this: Dot up, wrath until eclipse procs then spam SF until eclipse weres of then back to wrath until eclipse proccs agin. Dots is refreshed when needed but NOT during eclipse. Is that the right way to do it?
Post by
Celdhyrean
You don't want to mindlessly refresh dots as moonkin since they don't bring much more than their own damage (except iFF), but it can still be worth it to refresh dots during Eclipse depending on where you are in the Eclipse.
Supposing spamming SF during Eclipse gives you a number of "+30% crit SF", refreshing a dot during Eclipse means you risk pushing one of those boosted SF's out, so you can just compare the damage you'd get from dot ticks to 30% of a crit SF damage (slight approximation since changing the time when you refresh dots will cause you to modify the amount of times each spell is cast but should be accurate enough for decision making).
For me it was (when i last did the math) worth refreshing MF during Eclipse if i got 3 ticks out of it and worth refreshing IS if i got 4 ticks out of it.
Post by
curlymon
I would like to bring up the point that is it better to do IS before MF when applying the DoTs. Reasoning is it pushes the MF a bit further along incase you get a bad string on non proc's while Wrathing, allowing you to still gain the benefit of the MF/SF glyphs during the Lunar Eclipse. It is a slight increase to dps all told but still an increase.
iFF > IS > MF > W til proc > SF till ~4-4.5 seconds before Eclipe CD is over > Repeat
If you feel even more confident in your abilities you can add in IS right after the Eclipse proc goes down. But napkin math tells me you'd only want to do this with 2t7 and the glyph.
Post by
Celdhyrean
Stopping SF 4s before end of CD seems a bit too cautious to me, that's more than 1s lag/reaction time. While i am a bit too greedy at times and shoot myself in the foot so to speak, I consider that at 3s left i still have largely enough time to let another SF go.
Post by
curlymon
Stopping SF 4s before end of CD seems a bit too cautious to me, that's more than 1s lag/reaction time. While i am a bit too greedy at times and shoot myself in the foot so to speak, I consider that at 3s left i still have largely enough time to let another SF go.
This allows you to place the DoTs on the target without spending out of CD time on anything other then Wrath spam for the Lunar Eclipse. The 4-4.5 seconds is because of the 1.5 base GCD from spells allowing you to land a Wrath as soon as the CD ends. Haste will cause the the gcd's to end up being less then 4.5 seconds but then the Eclipse procs on HIT not at the end of cast so you can have a Wrath flying 0.1 seconds before the CD end but the spell itself lands and can proc due of travel time.
I generaly continue casting till I see the CD on eclipse has 4.5 or leas time on it at which point I refresh DoTs. If it has not passed that point I use SF.
Edit: Just to be clear when I say CD I mean the internal cd of Eclipse as tracked by Squawk and Awe.
Post by
Celdhyrean
I'm not sure i see the point in wasting an SF you know will benefit from the proc just to get the proc going 1.5-2s faster afterwards (which is RNG dependant)
Post by
curlymon
Ok I see where you are getting confused. I'm talking
after
the proc is
over
but 4.5 seconds
before
the cooldown ends. Bascially 4-4.5 seconds before eclipse become procable.
Timeline:
(20% haste - 2.4 sec SF)
Spell Used - Time till Eclipse leaves CD.
SF - 30 (
Eclipse has just proc'd
)
SF - 27.6
SF - 25.2
SF - 22.8
SF - 20.4
SF - 18
SF - 15.6
SF - 13.2 (
Eclipse proc is down and we are waiting on the CD now
)
SF - 10.8
SF - 8.4
SF - 6
SF - 3.6
iFF - 2.4
IS - 1.2
W - 0 (
Eclipse is now procable and your wrath should be casting/landing
)
The numbers really don't show the 4-4.5 second mark very well but as you can see as soon as it goes under the mark it allows you to have Wraths landing as it comes off CD. Basic premise of this rotation is to only ever use Wrath while Eclipse can be proc'd, by moving the DoTs/Debuffs into the "SF filler" area of the rotation.
Post by
Celdhyrean
I see. You basically refresh dots every 30s or more, which i personnally can't really agree with (for IS). If Eclipse proc is down and the dot isn't up, i'm going to refresh it immediately since they are our best DPCT spells under normal conditions (and that'll probably often allow me to cast twice more IS's than you).
Post by
curlymon
I see. You basically refresh dots every 30s or more, which i personnally can't really agree with (for IS). If Eclipse proc is down and the dot isn't up, i'm going to refresh it immediately since they are our best DPCT spells under normal conditions (and that'll probably often allow me to cast twice more IS's than you).
If you feel even more confident in your abilities you can add in IS right after the Eclipse proc goes down. But napkin math tells me you'd only want to do this with 2t7 and the glyph.
This I know and do put IS up after the Eclipse proc ends. If you read up a bit I did say that. I was just giving you a basic idea of when I was refreshing the DoTs in prep for the Wrath spam. I'm not going to argue if your or I am correct I was simply explaining what i was speaking about.
Post by
Celdhyrean
Didn't appear in your timeline, so i can only comment on what i see.
(and i'm not saying you should absolutely change what you do either as it's probably not a big dps increase either)
Post by
195647
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Celdhyrean
The last points are worth slightly less than the first, that is true. Also, eclipse did go over a lot of iteration, and the choice of wether to go for Lunar or Solar Eclipse also took some time to solidify.
As things stand now, for PvE you want the lunar Eclipse, and you're already on a double RNG to get the proc. You don't want to take less than the maximum number of points because it WILL hurt the uptime of the proc.
(unless you're stacking crit to high extremes which is bad for other reasons)
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