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WTB - A challenging Heroic 5-man.
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Post by
TheMediator
Have you completed
Glory of the Hero
?
A flying mount isn't that bad.
Btw.. why a heroic should be hard?
Well why should a raid be hard? Because people want to do challenging things from time to time. I believe that this thread will be answered in the Icecrown Citadel patch, possibly with an H MGT type instance.
Give resto a try, you will appreciate how much more difficult a healer has it.
That's total BS btw, I'm primarily a resto shaman but I've played the DPS specs, and maximizing your DPS as enchancement is much more challenging than playing as a resto shaman, considering all the abilities have different cooldowns, you have to rotate in different totems for DPS, your maelstrom weapon popping up randomly, and knowing when to pop your trinkets and lust effectively.
Now I can support the statement that you can get by as a bad DPS more easily because there's more people to pick up your slack, but I just can't support the statement that being a great healer is more challenging than being a great DPS.
Post by
windstrum
Of the heroics themselves, many are actually quite challenging, however we as experienced players have dealt with similar fight mechanics in the past, or are able to learn and get the idea of said fight mechanics quickly. So to us, fights may seem easier than they really are. To people who are new to the content, it will be agonisingly hard.
My favourite point so far, and something I've always felt but never been able to articulate.
In BC I got as far as Kara. Our small guild cleared Kara once. Ever. We were remarkably inexperienced, and our single Kara clear was just prior to WoTLK.
WoTLK brings no new challenges as such, but even the same challenges are just as difficult to us as they were in BC.
I can see how a guild who was well past Kara on their way to BT and SP would find Naxx and the heroics fairly simple, but thats because your skills and knowledge in the game have come so much further. Your needs will be seen to in the not-too-distant future with 3.1, but in the mean time Blizzard need to focus their attention on pleasing the other 90% of their playing population.
I understand those of you might feel ripped off by the new expansion. I understand it might feel like a backward-step in difficulty from what you're used to. But that's because it is. And you need to understand why it needed to be.
EDIT: Inserted wrong quote.
Post by
169403
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Fhoulan
Try rolling with undergeared tanks and healers, or for that matter, try tanking. Then come back and qq some more. You do know the expansion isn't even close to finished...right?
So me and my friend hit 80 the other day and formed a H CoS later that night and it happens that I was tanking with my only epic crafted BS sheild and him healing with his titansteel guardian and a couple of average dps and I got a bronze drake. This game is hard. All that was said was something like: Look at your radar for mobs, first boss chains, second summons, watch out for spawns behind us.
You're bad if you think tanking is hard.
Or maybe, just maybe, you're a newer player or one that hasn't tanked tons of previous content. *sigh* I said it in a previous post, and lo and behold later on I find a very similar comment
written in blue
that flat out states that naxx was designed to be an intro to peeps that have never raided before, and that Ulduar will be the next step up. With that in mind, the current instances would have been designed with a similar idea in mind so that those same players can gear up easily enough for the "beginner's raid" that we have available right now.
Please, give it a rest already, there's more to come and if you don't feel like it's coming quickly enough then by all means find something else to do besides complain.
Ever notice how cell phone companies, retail stores, and any number of other businesses offer great deals to new customers? Better deals than what current customers have? That's because long-term/established customers have a history to base their loyalty off of, while new customers have to be given a little preferential treatment up front in order to keep them interested enough to want to invest more time into it, and not just leave be cause the initial presentation was a little too "meh".
Think I'll make a thread after some sleep linking a nice amount of Blue posts, so if someone beats me to it please leave a reply here so I don't create spam.
Post by
saepaan
As many others have already said, do it with a PuG. I also think that heroics are kind of dull now that I have the appropriate gear and ready to jump into Naxx and slash through mobs there. Still, the term "challenging" can be twisted in different directions.
Say, maybe try to beat a old record? A complete HoL run within 30 mins without anyone get hit by Loken's hard-hitting AoE. The heroic achievements, maybe? Or what if you bringing a non-def capped tank, 1k dps rogue, a mage wearing greens only interested in collecting quest items, a shaman healer wearing "of the Owl" items and a 12 year old hunter that doesn't speak english? Now that's a
headache
challenge.
I think Blizz is learning from what they did last time. Implementing a highly-attractive instance sometime before release was a real hit, and they noticed it. I'll be seeing forward to an incoming instance, with a new definition of challenge. As we all know, MgT was very difficult, even at normal.
Post by
146010
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Post by
292955
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Post by
56783
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Post by
dhampir1989
Of the heroics themselves, many are actually quite challenging, however we as experienced players have dealt with similar fight mechanics in the past, or are able to learn and get the idea of said fight mechanics quickly. So to us, fights may seem easier than they really are. To people who are new to the content, it will be agonisingly hard.
My favourite point so far, and something I've always felt but never been able to articulate.
In BC I got as far as Kara. Our small guild cleared Kara once. Ever. We were remarkably inexperienced, and our single Kara clear was just prior to WoTLK.
WoTLK brings no new challenges as such, but even the same challenges are just as difficult to us as they were in BC.
I can see how a guild who was well past Kara on their way to BT and SP would find Naxx and the heroics fairly simple, but thats because your skills and knowledge in the game have come so much further. Your needs will be seen to in the not-too-distant future with 3.1, but in the mean time Blizzard need to focus their attention on pleasing the other 90% of their playing population.
I understand those of you might feel ripped off by the new expansion. I understand it might feel like a backward-step in difficulty from what you're used to. But that's because it is. And you need to understand why it needed to be.
EDIT: Inserted wrong quote.
Quoted for Truthiness and to add the following.
Eregos. The one real heroic boss with any new mechanics.
Im going to raise my hand and admit, the first dozen times on heroic were wipes because we had, as a group, no real dea what to do.
EVERY other boss is more or less the same.
So, how many times do you see heroic Occulus pop up on LFG.
Its the least PuGged heroic on my server, and for a reason.
Post by
MrFredII
So, how many times do you see heroic Occulus pop up on LFG.
Its the least PuGged heroic on my server, and for a reason.
Perhaps its that the last fight is only enjoyable to people who like the gimmick of fighting on dragons? Or maybe its hard to find PuGs who understand how to fight using the dragons. I find Occulus no harder than the other level 80 instances. I just enjoy it less, even when I go with guildies.
Post by
106006
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Post by
106006
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Post by
255458
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Post by
122030
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Post by
148039
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Post by
dhampir1989
There are some difficult heroics, like AN and OK. The problem isn't in difficult heroics, the problem is there's no reason to do heroic AN/OK when you can get the same gear/emblems out of any easy heroic. The emblem out of UK is the same out of OK.
Even if they released a heroic that was the most difficult content in the game, nobody would run it. Just like nobody runs OK or Occ now
/totally agree
Was thinking of writing this while reading other posts. People keep whining about easy heroics. Why when I enter LFM and browse the heroics and ppl LFG there, the only ones I always see are Nexus, VH, UK. Heroics like Oculus, UP, OK and even DTK are usually empty. If you want a challenging heroic - go pug one of those.
But again - at the end of the day, NOONE WANTS CHALLENGE. every1 wants some fast and easy emblems. This was the problem in TBC as well - people would rather go for fast badges in SP, UB, Mech, and abandon Arca, Shadow Labs, Sethekk, Shattered Halls and Crypts
Tried this arguement,
They arent pugged because they arent fun.
Nothing to do with them being tricky at all. Nope. Just not fun.
Post by
Fhoulan
Tried this arguement,
They arent pugged because they arent fun.
Nothing to do with them being tricky at all. Nope. Just not fun.
I won't deny that may be the opinion of quite a few of you, but don't assume that it's gotta be the same reason for the other 11 million subscribers.
This discussion can't be won, but what we do know is that Blizzard has already admitted the current Wrath content was designed towards the "beginners" at least as far as raids are concerned. meh /deadhorse.
Post by
106006
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
FritzTheCat
Unless you moderate this forum, you need to deal with the fact that there are posters who feel like I do and who are going to say so right here on wowhead. Also your use of the verb 'whine' is misplaced in this context. Is this self-referential? Most adults do not whine, fyi.
This is a private forum, so if the owners/mods decide to purge/prohibit this topic, that is another matter entirely.
I don't have to moderate the forum to deal with posters who feel as you do in order to come up with the conclusion that you are, in fact, whining and complaining. Adult or not, its still a "QQ". Context, when in plain text, is entirely in the eye of the beholder - The OP translates to 'wahh my hard game has gone soft wahh' to *my* eyes and I responded accordingly. There must be heavy emphasis on the word 'Most' before 'adults' in your 'context'.
It's tragic that Blizzard, in catering to its enormous and growing player base of all ages, that the original challenge and spark has been taken from the players who have been around longer. I don't dispute that. Its a shame that they feel victimized... it must be similar to the feelings denizens of the Seattle music scene in the early 90's had before Nirvana and friends made grunge an international phenomenon, when suddenly what was 'theirs' became the entire worlds, and thus cheapened. It's sad, and it sucks. However... it is how it is. And
That's life.
You'll either quit in disgust and dismay, or keep plugging on despite your greivances, and hope for the best to come in the future. But in the end, this is still a QQ thread.
Post by
Crowax
It's group dependant. Sometimes all heroics are a walk in the park, the next day with different people it's hardcore wipefest.
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