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Should balance/resto druids be allowed to roll on cloth
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Post by
261514
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Post by
dumac
in 25 man guilds you should use a dkp system, that way it makes it easier to not have this discussion and time sink brought up. Also a good guild looks on benefits and encourage its member to think about the guild best instead of their personal best in some situations.
x got high dkp but already won 2 pieces so he let the piece go to y who has less dkp but needs it also.
Post by
249416
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Post by
Celdhyrean
They don't have prio, they have equal rights (for a best in slot item).
Post by
249416
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Post by
Fhoulan
in a pug they don´t have equal rights, in guild maybe. there usally drop equal sp leather gear to. so when i run naxx for example and i see 3-4 leather items drop and no cloth (or maybe a cloth with hitraiting). then when the cloth item drop, the druid take it.... &*!@ that...
as a preist i have seen many thoose greedy dpser take all loot becouse they are 4 and the preist is only one it´s much bigger chance a dps get the loot. and the progress of raiding stops becouse you don´t have enough healing.
This only exemplifies what I said earlier, evidence of a broken/gimped system does not justify gimping another player. It may make it frustrating and/or stressful as hell, personally that's not reason enough for me to be unfair to another player. There's one constant in the posts that say "no" or "after everyone else", no matter what argument they used, it all boils down to giving the other casters a higher chance of getting the gear. Which sounds good, but let's not forget you're excluding someone who can benefit the exact same as you, which no matter how you dress it up is the definition of selfishness.
Now when there is other comparable leather in whatever instance/raid the boomkin/resto is in, then by all means make a rule but make sure everyone is aware from the get-go. Assumptions only cause problems. Looking at Naxx loot tables for instance shows several pieces of leather with good caster stats. If it then becomes an issue of a boomkin/resto wanting cloth because some stats are a tiny bit more to their liking on a piece......then they can wait since the cloth-wearers don't have that luxury.
Post by
146819
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Post by
227517
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Post by
Fhoulan
And no, pallies, warriors, hunters, shaman, etc should not get to roll on cloth(or leather) just because they can wear it. They are melee, ability to wear it does not give right. This case is different because there are ample pieces of plate that afford SP/int/casting stats for pallies, warriors have no excuse whatsoever, shaman have enough mail, etc etc.
Fhoulan. I quoted the above paragraph to show that you fail at logic. You just said that Hunters and Shaman shouldn't roll on on cloth because they are melee. Yes Shaman can melee but dont have to from what I know of the class. And I'm sure there are some good melee hunters out there they are not the "norm" of the class.
Also, you speak of restricting leather wearers to leather as gimping the raid but its not as if the consensus has been to shard the cloth rather than give it to the droodles, just give it to the clothies first. the raid/guild benefits regardless who gets it
The overall message of the statements after my "melee" sentence should have pointed out what I meant, but "physical dps" is what I intended to be there. Obviously there are exceptions such as Holy Pallies, Elemental and resto shammies, but that should be clear by the sentences that followed.
And yes, as long as an appropriate class gets the cloth the raid will benefit somewhat. However, if for instance the cloth piece only gives a cloth-wearer a benefit of +5 int/SP/spirit/etc compared to what they currently have equipped vs. say +30 to the same for the boomkin/resto, logic states the raid will benefit more to give it to the boomkin. Any other choise at that point is biased and not based upon logic. This assumes that all raid members are regular members of the raid, and that a boomkin/resto is not just acting as a stand-in to the regular lineup.
Logic specifies that all eligible, spec-appropriate classes should be able to have a chance at a roll if it would be an upgrade. Anyone can feel free to argue the point further, however, this isn't an "opinion" you're arguing against. And if you choose to argue against logic.......well to put it simply, you fail.
Also, just to give an idea of availablity, here are results of caster cloth vs. caster leather using the filters "added in wotlk", "drops in normal/any", and "drops in heroic/any":
Bear in mind cloaks are not included in cloth filters:
162 total cloth, 108 of which are heroic/80 pieces
73 total leather, 50 of which are heroic/80 pieces
Blizzard should just remedy the issue by restricting leather to feral forms, and/or similarly restricting "normal" form, moonkin, and trees to cloth-only. They could then eliminate the issue, drop the need to even create leather with caster stats, and increase the number of cloth/caster armor.
As I said before, there is no similar argument in regards to trinkets, rings, necklaces, and/or weapons, thus forcing people to focus only on the stats and not biased opinions.
Post by
107569
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Post by
Jaspirac
I will ALWAYS let the cloth wearers have first dibs on cloth drops. Quite often- they already have better cloth on and I can get the deferred goods. That's the way it goes for my Boomkin- leather spell power is rare for me at the moment so I make it up with cloth when appropriate. There shouldn't be a hard rule but everyone needs to be on the same page- otherwise you end up screwing your healers (Resto Druids and Priests) and DPS (Booms, and the other casters).
90% of the leather you get from quests is Rogue/Feral that means I end up taking cloth for Spell Power so why would I not want to "need" it in on an instance drop? The simple addition of some Boomkin gear would solve a lot of problems with this issue.
Post by
150866
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150866
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107569
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Post by
Fhoulan
/agree with Mizak fo sho, and also with most of what you said, Dant. However, since "fairness" is subjective/opinion and the issue revolves around something Blizzard is responsible for, the only way to ensure a uniform decision across the board is to base the choice on something reliable/constant. Enter logic. Also, since opinions/people are different/flawed/selfish to different degrees, I will always rely on facts when it comes time to make a decision rather than opinions. After all, when everyone can admit the above statement regarding opinions/people is true, it's only
logical
that would be my chosen course ;)
Post by
306438
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Post by
163531
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Post by
faia
its preety easy people not get
just the reason i can "use" leather do not mean i "need" to wear it
main diffrent on cloth vs leather is armor....as boomkin/resto i don't need Armor in Pve or something wrong
people get blinded by that
cloth whine about it? look we got element shaman that want our gear to because of upgrade, and i think we all agree as DPS armor is last stat we look for
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150866
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150866
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