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Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
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Cranky Tank
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Post by
297395
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Post by
Aadramelekh
I can assure you man that I feel your pain. I apply a simple solution in pugs: let the f@cken trigger happy DPS die. If an increasing repair bill won't make them pay more attention or if worse, they start insulting me, all for the better, I have more candidates for the Ignore list.
It is the job of dps to be aware and control their own threat QFT
grrrrrrr
Post by
Haxzor
Growl has no rage requirement. I prefer swipe over Challenging Roar, except when its an emergency
Post by
297395
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Post by
77382
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Post by
Aadramelekh
This is the exact mentality that $%^&ty DPsers have imo... IF he is generating threat mainly on 2 targets with maul/mangle and the others are held there with his swipe only enough not to go on the healer... If you as DPS attack one of those targets instead of the primary / secondary, then you DO deserve to die should you pull aggro.
Stop *!@#$ing about other's skills and use Omen to watch your threat and do damage on the right targets.
Post by
270242
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77382
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271063
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297395
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Post by
Elgarth
You know, maybe I should make a macro that announces:
"Congratulations! You just pulled threat because you are attacking the wrong target. You are now the off-tank for that target. Good luck!"
Win!
I have a macro that says something like that...
Usually it's enough and the rest of the instance goes well.
Post by
Aadramelekh
parrazell
is right. The basic AoE tanking mechanic for a druid is different from all others.
Paladins and Death Knights have it the easiest. Put down Consecrate and then go on about using other abilities while threat builds up on all targets. Death Knights put down Death and Decay (which has a high threat component built-in), then put two diseases on the main target and hit Pestilence (spreads the diseases to all targets in 10 yards) and go on about his business. Warriors use their Shockwave, which does 75% of their AP in damage (and a well geared Warrior tank has at least ~2500 AP unbuffed, thus ~1900 damage in one shot), and Thunder Clap, doing 300 base damage plus 12% of AP (another ~300), it can crit and it is improved by abilities / glyphs, raising it to ~700 probably.
Druids have to continuously mash the Swipe button and Maul remains the only ability that can be used with this simultaneously, and that is on a 2.5 sec CD, the auto-attack speed. No Lacerate, no Mangle. In my case, at ~4500 AP in bear form, Swipe does about 400 damage, and it can crit. If the DPS can focus on one of the two main targets of the Druid (considering he uses a glyph) then all is fine, pulling aggro is kinda hard. But those that start shooting their top damage abilities on the Swipe targets are bound to pull aggro. Not only in the Druids's case, but the Druid has it harder than the other classes that tank. Besides, when doing a pull, other things can happen. A 1-2 seconds lag will cause the Swipe to miss the incoming mobs, zero threat. Some other mobs charge and the simple natural network communication delay will make them to stop behind the Druid, no Swipe, zero threat. BLOODY Mages, Boomkins and Elemental Shamans that use their knock back abilities push the mobs out of Swipe's range, again no threat generation. The Druid has to compensate the lack of a 'lay-down-and-forget-about-it' ability like Consecrate with MUCH more mobility and situational awareness.
The DPS must at least know some basic particularities of the tank class they are running with in the instance. The DPS should be watching THREAT meters first, DPS meters second. The DPS should at least use the blasted 'target of target' option to see who's the first kill. As long as they focus on that one for the first 4-5 seconds, they can move on to the other targets with no concern for threat after that, since the AoE tank abilities had enough time to build threat on all. Or at least follow the marks placed by the tank. I have met quite many DPSers that proceed blasting targets in reverse order simply to be able to use a high DPS rotation on a mob that won't be also shot by the others. Their desire of topping the DPS meters without concern for the fact that healing them instead of the tank puts the group at more risk or the simple fact that if they die, that means more downtime because of the resurrection and rebuffing, are plain dumb.
Given the tank is indeed doing his best at building threat, there are these types out there. And they forget the three basic rules of a raid:
1. If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault.
2. If the healer dies, it's the tank's fault.
3. If the DPS dies, it's their own fault.
Call me narrow-sighted, but this is the truth in 95% of the cases.
Post by
135622
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297395
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Post by
109094
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Post by
Aadramelekh
Well put.Maybe its due to my unusually high hit & expertise (for a tank that is)There is no such thing as 'unusually high' when we speak of hit rating and expertise for Bears. Physical attacks are the ONLY way we generate threat so not having enough hit & expertise will cause a lot of headaches and angry party/raid members. While they should usually pay attention to their threat, the tank also must strive for the best threat generation, because in the end, the faster the mobs / bosses die, the better.
If you look at my armory link, you'll see what threat stats I am talking about,
Desprez
. And I use a +40 hit rating food when raiding, to reach the magic number, 8%. Or an elixir. AoE tanking is not a problem for me now. But I remember in my first days of getting into heroic dungeons... 80 hit rating and 18 expertise... Ewwh >.<
Post by
109094
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297395
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109094
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Post by
Aadramelekh
Yes, the hit cap for trash mobs in heroic dungeons (that usually are lvl 80) is 5%, thus about 160 hit rating. Also the expertise required for heroic dungeons is 26 (208 rating, 6.5% expertise). Bosses have lvl 82, so the requirements go up a bit, but with these stats you should have veeeeeeery little to no problems at all.
I do not have your armory profile, but a short piece of advice would be to have 2/2 Primal Precision as talent and use the
Trollwoven Spaulders
, the
Trollwoven Girdle
and the
Durable Nerubhide Cape
. These three crafted Leatherworking pieces are absolutely fantastic for reaching the expertise cap and also provide excellent stats for tanking heroic dungeons and 10 man raids. Try and then get a hold of the
Crystal-Infused Tunic
(HC Nexus) and the
Chain Gang Legguards
(get them from HC Violet Hold or the AH). Run Gundrak normal and do the
One of a Kind
quest for some nice
Kneeboots
.
Helm of the Avenging Protector
should come easy from Sholazar Basin quest
Reclamation
. The
Njorndar Furywraps
come from the
Not-So-Honorable Combat
quest in Icecrown. You also have the
Kurzel's Rage
ring from the
Search and Rescue
quest in the Drak'Tharon Keep. Another imba ring is the
Dragonflight Great-Ring
, from normal Oculus.
And note that with your first 25 Emblems of Heroism you should buy the
Chained Military Gorget
as a top priority.
There are many items easy to obtain, that have hit rating on them, good for tanking. Enchant them with stamina / agility to boot and you're set to tank any heroic dungeon and even set foot in the Arachnid Quarter, the Plague quarter in Naxxramas and also in the Obsidian Sanctum! Good luck! :)
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