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Druids set to be the best tanks in WotLK?
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Post by
DrDrako
Ummm...
Since when have druids NOT been the best tanks?
Post by
144872
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aadramelekh
My dear
foleynuts
(I am refraining from using more harsh words... which you would fully deserve for being ignorant)... Open up your eyes and look at the WHOLE screenshot.
Those were only the first 15 seconds into the fight, out of which 5-7 were left to the MT alone to make sure he has a solid lead in threat. Notice that the DPS had done mostly between 10K and 20K damage only, with the mages and hunters over 20K. You might want to check out the big picture before making statements. So you would better shot up about this stupid achievement before you make a fool out of yourself, since that was the 25 man Patchwerk, not the 10 man, and it was the first heroic raid for the guild. You can imagine not even half of them had even 2xTier 7 at that moment.
Here is a screenshot from the second raid on heroic Patchwerk, three days ago:
4 minutes 5 seconds
. You notice it is also an improvement over the last attempt, which was in the previous screenshot, at 4 minutes 26 seconds. I shall post later today a screenshot to shut that pie hole of yours about threat generation. Because you obviously don't have enough brains to evaluate the entire situation, and not just focus on a number in a picture with dozens of numbers across it. I had only landed a mangle crit and an auto attack there (notice the mangle cooldown is active), and a Heteful strike had JUST hit me, putting me up to 75 rage. I can assure you that the after 4 seconds the MT was begging me to slow down on threat, because I was at 95% of his level.
No more comments on this one. You'll see later when I get home from work what real threat generation means. I promise :)
PS:
L2 contribute to the raid other than just an ot slot
Hahaha! Well here is
what an OT can bring to the raid
, you elitist smart@$$. Or
THIS
.
Post by
Aadramelekh
Ok here goes:
THREAT GENERATION
. I promised a screenshot, here's the screenshot. Maybe now you will reconsider your statements,
foleynuts
.
Post by
109094
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Post by
228982
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Post by
137754
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Post by
144872
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
116387
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Post by
Aadramelekh
You STILL don't have demo or fff up. (not even on thaddius for that matter)
FAIL.
Not to mention you dont use target of target.. *gasp* Tanks that don't use target of target? OMG
/cry
Yes, Mr. Guru.
1. apply mangle
2. set up a 5 stack of lacerates
3. put up demo roar and fff.
You are so wise, Mr. Guru!
As far as the sapp fight? Well.. again.. grats on getting 2nd.. How many of your dps died in that fight? Please tell me it was more than 5no one died. They are smarter than you, Mr. Guru.
If I was a hunter/mage/rogue getting beaten by a druid I would /quit life.
Well Mr. Guru, I won't try and stop you from acting stupid ... because of a COMPUTER GAME.
blah blah blah..
QFT QED QQ
Post by
wildrooster27
Silly Druids, tanking is for Death Knights.
Just kidding, but really, if you are a tank and you out DPS any DPS on a boss fight, something is
very
wrong and your DPS should /die.
Post by
Aadramelekh
Indeed, by tradition so to speak, tanks, even druids that have the best DPS as offtanks compared to warriors and paladins, even death knights that are specced for tanking, should not be in competition with the top DPS classes. However, a tank specced druid probably only misses on a few talents such as
Predatory Instincts
and
Master Shapeshifter
compared to a pure DPS specced feral. Give or take.
The DPS abilities of cats have been greatly improved though. Many people are still under the impression from Burning Crusade where feral druids were not even close to rogues, warriors, hunters, mages, warlocks or shamans when it came to dealing damage. When fighting a boss that allows two complete
Berserk
cycles, rolling bleeds with Savage Roar @ 14500 AP is quite competitive. Indeed, in that screenshot at Thaddius the try was failed due to some unhappy mistakes. But the fact that I, as a tank/cat specced feral, am in the top 5 damage dealers remains constant. At Sapphiron again, being second and only within a small margin from the warrior on top. I am not flexing my e-peen by saying that I am a much better player than they are or that they are absolute noobs. No. What comes out of this is the simple fact that feral druids are now on par with other DPS classes.
Also keep in mind the nature of the encounters. On a Patchwerk try I was assigned to DPS, as the guild wanted to test some new tanks. Believe me that in that particular fight, where the only thing a DPS does is sit on his ass and roll his/her max damage cycle, I was somewhere along 8th to 10th position.
Whereas Sapphiron requires quite some movement. Melee DPS are actually at an advantage there, since they can sit close enough to Sapphiron not to get caught in blizzards and thus not needing to move (which all of the ranged DPS will do, move when needed, thus disrupting optimal damage cycle). Also when Sapphiron takes off, I pull a Rake & Rip with Savage Roar up. Those will tick even when he is in the air and I am moving to hide behind iceblocks. All other ranged DPS will be already on the move, not doing damage.
On the Thaddius fight also there is alot of raid movement involved. In those 5 seconds it takes for the electrical charge to start effecting the players, I simply take a few steps from one side to the other, constantly hitting the boss with auto attacks and specials. Ranged DPS that has no DoTs needs to interrupt their damage cycle when moving once again.
On Loatheb where everything DPS do is again sit on their asses and roll maximum damage, I get left around 7th-8th places in top DPS.
And so on.
And if you have a feral druid offtank in the raid that can bring also great DPS, will cry out for a nerf or call the other DPS noobs? I certainly would not. I'd be actually happy that one member can do two jobs with high enough efficiency and contribute more to the raid than a prot warrior that is a great tank but when it comes to dealing damage he cannot even hope to reach such a performance.
The entire point of those screens was simply to show a sample of what a feral druid with appropriate gear, spec and play style can bring to the raid. Probably the bears are still not THE BEST tanks but certainly can take on any encounter just as well as a warrior, paladin or Death Knight. But for the role of off tank, it is my belief that feral druids are the best choice possible. Their versatility as both great tanks and good DPS in one single spec reccommends them for the 'Best Offtank' award.
Post by
Slimda
I had 2.2k DPS on Patchwerk as offtank. I find that sufficiently decent.
I love druids and druidism. This is the only class for me, right now. I might level a priest at some point, but right now, I'll concentrate on getting the best possible gear, the most achievements and the best possible reputation on my server. (or atleast in my guild) :)
Post by
144872
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Erona
Pish, who needs a true OT anymore. I never bring one to my 10 mans. Prot Paladin and a Feral (myself) or our Unholy Death Knight OT's for me (since I can put out far more DPS than him atm, building up his Naxx 25 DPS gear :P). On top of that! Who needs healers! Our Shaman went Enhancment last night for all off Naxx 10 (funny, he just got Clamity's Grasp and the Nerubian OH Fist) and we whomped Patchwerk in a stunning 2m12 seconds. Ill get a screenshot next week.
I feel the same way about Druid and Paladin threat. The Shamans always ask "When do you want Heroism" I simply reply "Right off the bat please". I get one Mangle in and hear that Heroism click and DPS starts almost immidently. No one can touch Druid threat if you do it correctly! On bosses you should have near unlimited Rage (I still pop Enrage for the damage increase). Paladin threat is just as ridiculous for that matter, 1 Avenger's Shield and its all out balls to the wall if you want.
7k TPS is pretty sad for a Druid (it seems that, or at least in my case, Warrior's and DK's have slower TPS than Pally's and Druid's). DPS in our guild regularly hits 9k TPS. Push it harder! Mangle on ever CD, Maul on ever attack, keep 5 stacks of Lacerate up, keep up FF and Demo Roar up as well, on every spare GCD (when Mangle is on CD and you have 5x Lacerate running at at least 50% of its duration remaining) spam Swipe a few times.
Pull with FF-> Mangle -> Maul (on every White) -> Lacerate x2 -> Mangle-> Lacerate x2-3 -> Mangle -> Finsh up Lacterate Stack -> Demo Roar
Post by
Erona
I had 2.2k DPS on Patchwerk as offtank. I find that sufficiently decent.
I love druids and druidism. This is the only class for me, right now. I might level a priest at some point, but right now, I'll concentrate on getting the best possible gear, the most achievements and the best possible reputation on my server. (or atleast in my guild) :)
In 10 or 25 man this is pretty terrible. You can easily spec for DPS and OT (while only loosing Master Shapeshifter, which isnt a HUGE loss imo).
On 25 mans (when we have our Warrior and 2x Paladin's absorbing the Hateful Strikes) I put out 4.8k DPS this week and our Unholy DK puts out 3.5k.
In 10's I put out 4.2k DPS this week on our 2m12s Patchwerk kill.
Its all about how you play your class. You need to know the rotation, you need to be on top of your Bleeds and Savage Roar. The longer you keep Rip/Rake/Savage Roar running the more DPS they are going to do over time (if that wasn't obvious).
Feral is, imo, one of the hardest DPS rotations in the game now (if you have a Arms Warrior or another Druid to do Mangle it becomes alot easier). 2 Bleeds to keep up, energy to watch so you can time reapplications of Rake/Rip/Savage Roar/Mangle as well as watching it for when you have OoC and enough spare to Shred. Shadow Priests and Affliction Warlocks are the only other classes that have as many things to watch as we do.
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