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Death knight > Prot Paladin AE Tank?
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Post by
TheMediator
Been looking at the new death knight talent trees, and it really looks like death knights could rival or even overpower prot paladins in terms of AE tanking.
This is the spec
I came up with for tanking, and honestly it seems like ithat it'd have pretty solid survivability for bosses (with enough avoidance bone shield could be kept up all the time against a single target) and it'd have pretty good threat generation (Death and Decay, Blood Boil, Pestilence, Unholy Blight, Wandering Plague, Corpse Explosion) and enough mitigation to AE tank
Post by
visas
you wont generate nearly as much threat via aoe as a prot pally will.
Right now, death and decay max rank does around 120 damage a tick. Consecrate does 200+, and scales better.
Death knights only get +25% threat generation via frost presence. Paladins get +60% from righteous fury.
Not only that, but a large part of paladin aoe tanking threat -and- damage mitigation comes from holy shield. He can partially reduce the damage of up to 8 attacks with it as well as generating several hundred additional threat on each target he blocks. Death knights dont have that utility.
I'm not saying we wont be able to aoe tank, but you're not going to be taking the spotlight from a paladin.
Post by
176331
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Post by
TheMediator
As for dk AoE I don't doubt that it would be possible with all their nice AoE but it would take some avoidance on the dk's part)
A death knight should be able to maintain high mitigation longer than a prot pally- pull with bone shield active, renew bone shield, icebound fortitude, bone shield again, lichborne, bone shield, icebound fortitude, bone shield (if a fight really lasted that long)
That's around 40-50% damage reduction most of the time (you have 25% extra avoidance for a small period) on top of whatever avoidance you already have, yes maybe you have less threat, but I definitely think you'd mitigation much more damage than a prot pally, who is relying on blocks for most of his hits (although against very large quantities of weaker mobs, blocking might be superior)
Post by
166878
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Post by
TheMediator
Unless the do something to seriously buff them I don't think they will main tank that well. No shield, and they don't have the armor or stamina of a bear druid with no shield.
As far as your videos of 5 dks running an instance, 5 retadins with 2h weapons can run an instance, that doesn't mean they can main tank.
Crushing blows are being removed so you don't need a shield to knock them off the table, also DKs in a single tank fight will have an nearly always on 40% damage reduction in addition to their avoidance and armor damage reduction
Unless bone shield gets heavily nerfed, it'll be god-like for raid tanking
Post by
176331
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Post by
TheMediator
By bone shield do you mean bone armor?
It's getting a name change to bone shield
If thats what you mean, that would hold out against a mob of mobs compared to holy shield. It has more charges to hold out longer, also remember that every time holy shield effect is activated thats a nice bit of holy contact cement right thar. Also Bone Armor has a longer CD then holy shield so more charges over that period of time.
Bone shield is getting an internal cooldown (3.5 seconds) so you can't quickly lose charges that way, also avoiding hits will prolong the the bone shield effect (you're likely in a very large AE situation to lose the charges in the minimum 10.5 seconds, but holy shield would fade much more quickly in that kind of situation anyways)
Once again, rivals possilbe. Superior? No
It reduces more damage, and much harder to knock down charges, sounds superior to me, and even those situations where you couldn't keep bone shield up all the time, you could mix in icebound fortitude or lichborne
Post by
176331
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Post by
TheMediator
port paladins could mix in a Divine Protection into the mix
Yeah, that's true
Avoidance you may have, but the threat is lacking majorly compared to a paladin. Once again rivals yes. Superior, no.
Maybe, but blood boil is an infinite target AE taunt, so if someone pulled aggro, they could pull all the mobs back to them with it and attempt to regain control, which paladins can't do past 3 targets, so I suppose they both have their strengths and weaknesses
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176482
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176331
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155359
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176331
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155359
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Post by
TheMediator
Any self respecting tank stacks as much sta as humanly possible.
Only because right now, there's no real way to seriously reduce damage taken, only be able to take the hits.... with WOTLK it seems they're changing this mentality, and tanks seem to solidly reduce damage, instead of just having the HP to take the hits. Avoidance, primarily dodge, would be highly useful for a death knight because it would allow them to lengthen the duration of bone shield, increasing their overall survivability, in addition to the damage reduced by avoiding more hits.
(With a passive 40% damage reduction, unless the enemies attacks were changed to scale with this damage, in theory you wouldn't need nearly as much HP as other tanks, and you'd be much easier to heal... but its likely to get nerfed)
Post by
176482
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Post by
TheMediator
Once again, Blizzard is changing paladins to be more like warriors. They're not only going to be AOE tanks anymore. They'll have more ability's to hold tons of aggro on one target much like a warrior. Even my warrior friends that have seen the WotLK talent trees are really bummed about warriors saying that Paladins will most likely over take main tanking responsibility for the most part. DK will most likely be a second tier tank like druids.
I've seen the talent trees, paladins have a spammable cleave now, what's your point? I have a really hard time seeing how DK could be a second tier tank when they'll have the best mitigation of any tank period unless their bone shield gets heavily nerfed, or their threat generation is just so terrible they can't hold aggro in a raid, which is unlikely since if their threat generation sucks, I'm sure blizzard will boost it
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155359
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Post by
94757
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