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What is the point of rogues?
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Post by
Mischieff
I'm bad at my class for stating that I do as well as you claim to have.
And what separates me from BT rogues is the gear from BT. Duh.
Thanks for trolling my post so much. You answered absolutely no questions posted and insulted me in every post. To think I avoided the WoW forums for this.
Cheers.
To let you know what they're talking about. It's not only the 20 energy and not being behind a boss/mob that gives Combat Swords the edge, it's the Extra attack, it's the MASSIVE white damage.
I personally am Combat Daggers, I top out my meters. I know how to play my rogue well enough that I can do that. But I do give the advantage to Combat Swords. They are top dps. End story.
My armory:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Frostwolf&n=Mischieff
Now, I'm not stellar geared by all means. On the PTR, I had this same gear, I out damaged a BT geared hunter. Illidan Bow and everything. I'll give him that the boss wasn't hunter friendly by any means, and he was doing his hunter thing (Hunters are not a mass DPS class). But the fact that I can do so, without breaking a sweat shows that it's not just BT gear separating BT rogues and yourself.. Maybe you're playing your rogue incorrectly, maybe not. Maybe you have a bad mindset. I don't know you so I can't say.
Judging from your gear (gem itemization) I'd say you don't know the class. I take Celaure's post into consideration that this might be a pvp set, but still (And I agree with his comments on what you should be focusing on). I take pride that I'm not max hit rating, but balanced enough in my other stats that I can out dps my roguemates. I understand that you came here looking for discussion and trying to keep your interest in your rogue. But if you feel so strongly about how much you dislike your rogue, delete him and reroll. You'll miss him, I guarantee it.
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87420
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Post by
Mischieff
Can someone give me some insight? I've been 70 and geared up a bit, but from what I can see I don't see any point in continuing being a rogue.
I won't complain about PvP because I don't care much about that, but from what I've dealt with in the little I've done I'm inclined to agree with a lot of the qq'ing.
My only concern now is this: I am a dps spec, strictly dps class that has zero utility most of the time and has to be in melee to dps causing healers to have to work more yet despite these concepts I only do dps COMPAREABLE to everyone else.
I'm working on my warrior now. Another class with compareable damage to my main. However he brings 1 of two useful group buffs and can reduce a target's armor by ~3000 if there is no warrior tanking already. He can also throw on a bunch of tank gear and deal with weaker adds.
I refer to him as "super rogue".
Here I am:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aman%27Thul&n=Motokoh
I know it's not the most insane dps gear available, but I'm not competing with people in BT gear. I'm competing with people in my guild who have about the same quality gear (although I had left that guild due to schedule differences. No reason for me to stick around in a guild if I don't get to raid with them. Hate the obligations)
K, im not one to bash or insult people unless you deserve it. However, i was combat daggers for a long time and i liked it. Mutilate is good through kara, thats it. However the math of combat swords will always outdps combat daggers b/c of the extra swing. the %5 to swing is greater than the 5% to crit, b/c it always procs on the main hand, it can proc off the offhand but it will be a main hand swing. However with 2.3 though Hemo is > than sinister strike. With that said, until you get 2, not one, good swords comparable to S2 daggers, stay combat spec, just respec dood. I know you went for a raid/pvp spec, but if you want to destroy the dps charts your spec needs a bit of changes. For instance, you dont have relentless strikes, that is a MUST for raid dps, as it makes your Slice and Dice/or Rupture free. I would recommend my spec that i used as combat daggers, now this is a pure raid dps build.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0efohZ0eV0dEz0MGotc
Now this is a spec past karazhan, but if your guild is still doing karazhan, gruuls and magtheridon, take the 2 points out of murder and put one in Lethality and Opportunity, or 2 in each however you see fit. Since all the mobs, or most of the mobs in kara are undead the 2 points in murder dont help any. This is a great dps spec, and the reason im saying its your spec dood is b/c you have the 5 points in parry and riptose, that is PURE pvp. theres no reason you should be getting parried if your attacking from behind. Again you dont need improved sinister strike unless its for grinding purposes as seeing you cant be behind your target all the time, imp gouge, useless in pve, well raid pve that is. the %5 to dodge is hella better, especially for 25 mans in case you pull aggro. Blade twisting, again a pvp talent. Idk what your rotation is but Eviscerate, should be out of your bars... period. Rupture and slice and dice WILL be your main key finishers, only use envenom if the target will die before your rupture is up. Anyways sorry for the novel but that is my 2 cents.
I agree with your post Wolfraider, however I don't agree with your spec. I find that this spec is much more optimized PvE raid damage for Combat Daggers:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0xfoLZ0eVb0Ez0MGktV
I understand where you're coming from with Ruthlessness, but that isn't worth the drop in % to leave out 4/5 Lethality and 5/5 Opportunity. Out of personal preference for filler talents, I prefer lower evasion times and 1/2 Nerves of steal compared to Improved Sprint and Improved Kick respectively. You won't be needing to clear movement impairing effects with Sprint during a raid most of the time. And a CHANCE to silence isn't worth as much resistance to Fear and Stun during a raid.
Other than that, your spec is pretty much right on the money with mine.
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Post by
ninjabrick
Rogues should be the best DPS in a raid unless a fight favors ranged DPS classes. If others are doing damage that are very comparable to yours, you're either doing something wrong or looking at the wrong kind of fight. Looking at your armory, I'm leaning towards the former.
Why do you have crit gems all over the place? It is the most overpriced stat that a rogue can gem himself with and thus provides the least DPS gain for what you spend. Secondly, I'm guessing you're also stacking attack power because you don't have Kings very often (outside of Karazhan). If you do often have Kings, though, agility will always be better. And finally, I suggest you spec swords for better DPS. The damage per energy ratio is somewhat even already between Sinister Strike and Backstab, but it's really Sword Specialization that pulls swords ahead. Offhand swings that proc a sword spec actually make the main hand swing, thus giving sword specced rogues a very large increase in white damage.
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101058_
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Post by
duraz0rz
The way I see it, rogues are there to provide massive melee DPS.
What if a mob/boss is highly resistant to magic? Where are you going to get your damage?
Also, if the rogue pulls aggro for some odd reason, it will be easier for the warrior to do something about it since they will be right there. As opposed to having to run across the room chasing an enemy when a caster has aggro.
Rogues are a support class; they are there to merely boost a certain mechanic that is essential to the game, which is physical damage-dealing. They EXCEL at putting on the hurt, with the side effect of being a little squishy when they get aggro.
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