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My take on flying
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Post by
Ithenell
My take on flying.
I see so much from both sides on this all over the web, so I tried to sit down and figure out what I think about flight and where Im currently at. Sorry for the LOOOONG post.
First off, I feel the need to state that I think it was rather dirty of Blizzard to create flying for the game, then for so much of it up until WoD make it very accessible without all the grind that we all absolutely know was added in order to get it. And then somewhere during all this sell us FLYING mounts for real US dollars only to end up telling us that we’d have to grind in order to get flying rather than just leveling up and paying the gold for it.
When I got flying in Pandaria, I leveled up to 90, paid the nice man and started flying. Sorry, but adding "just playing the game" to that was absolutely adding 'grind' to the requirements regardless of the claims of some. I 'grind' to mine ghost iron ore. Yes it is 'playing the game' so I can sell it or use it myself, but it IS a 'grind'...again, regardless of what some try to claim.
By the very DEFINITION of the word ‘grind’ and its USE by players of this game, yes, flying was turned into a ‘grind’ in WoD and Legion compared to MoP where the the requirements were simply leveling up to 90 and paying the gentleman a few thousand gold, which can easily be acquired by purchasing a WoW token.
Giving us flying then making it a “grind” much later on is akin to me buying a car for good price, being overjoyed with the purchase, then finding out that the car I bought wont drive over 45 mph. Yes, it'll get me where I need to go, but its not legal to take it onto the freeway.
I call the dealer to find out what the problem is and he informs me that the car is throttled so it will never go past 45mph...but if I will come by the dealership and wash every employees car every day for 3 months they will remove the throttling device so I can drive faster.
Lets please not insult ourselves by claiming that the analogy doesnt work.
Sorry, but it does when it is understood that SOME of us dont play the game for QUESTING and building up reputation. Some of us enjoy the OTHER aspects of the game, like that end game PvP everyone is always going on about that doesnt REQUIRE much of the questing at all seeing that I can level up in dungeons, which, if ever removed, will absolutely end my time playing this game since, again, I dont do much of the questing to level up.
And since this game is ABOUT PvP (world of WARcraft) and fighting, I really dont comprehend Blizzards take on this anyway, and especially some of the player base defenders of Pathfinder.
Getting to END GAME content was my GOAL. Getting to the raiding and battlegrounds. I didnt CARE to play the quests to get there. My choice...or it should be.
Its almost ironic that Blizzard allow me to level up about 99% in dungeons to get to end game content...then plays this silly game with letting me fly in two ridiculously small game zones which only has the sole effect of irritating me so that I might end up not wanting to play the game at all.
The illogic is baffling given that in none of the game zones has flying actually ruined the experience for anyone, BUT HAS made the game MORE enjoyable for those of us who like it and all those cool flying mounts we either found or paid hard earned dollars for.
Im paying for two WoW accounts and Ive run a few numbers. Thats $30 a month for subs. I bought a WoW token for my Demon Hunter a few days ago, so thats another $20. I purchased probably 4 or 5 wow Tokens for the wife and for myself since we started in late August of 2017, less than six months ago. And we recently purchase four "flying" mounts. Two on her account, two on mine.
If my math is right that is $300+ in 5 months of game play.
See? I dont mind supporting a company who makes a game Im actually enjoying. I golf a lot and pay ~$45 per four hour round to play ONE day, ONE time, so paying Blizzard to play such a great game unlimited for $15 a month is more than a bargain. I dont mind tossing extra money at them for their efforts, just like I tip the golf course drink girl for bringing me a cold water on a hot day or my waiter for providing me with a meal I enjoyed.
Im going to play this game until I dont enjoy it anymore. If someone here has access to my account and can see my accomplishments, you'll see pretty quickly that I dont quest much. What questing I have been doing is more doing it solely for gear upgrades. Ive been very selective to try to do the stuff I believe will pay off in upgrades. Not much more.
I prefer to explore, gather, fight on occasion, etc...but I got burned out on questing in the 1990s and probably wont do much of it again in any game regardless of external pressure to do so.
Additionally, please stop this ‘If you dont like the game why do you play” nonsense. I can like SOME aspects of WoW and NOT like others.
As stated, Im going to play this game until I stop enjoying it.
Flight is one aspect of the game that makes me enjoy it more. I dont need to explain or justify myself to anyone, anywhere for any reason on the matter.
I enjoy parts of a game that I enjoy. Thats MY decision...MY preference.
And so I will continue to play this game until, again, I stop enjoying it. And since flight is an aspect of that...and questing isnt...I can say with some certainty that not having flight in WoD, Legions and soon to be BfA because I dont like questing much, that at some point I'll very likely be taking my $300+ dollars / 5 months elsewhere to another game that I can enjoy for whatever reason.
As for the players making this ABSURD claim that someone who quits over flight didnt like the game much....that is nothing beyond absurdity.
I like my car. Its easy and low cost to fix and is overall a very nice car.
I dont like the fact that it gets lower gas mileage than I think it should.
I dont have to hate my car over ONE issue, but I can decide to get rid of it solely because of that single point.
See how that works?
Please stop sounding foolish making these ridiculous claims that because we dont like some aspect of something...maybe even enough to remove that something from our life, that we didnt like it to begin with.
The fact that we are PLAYING and PAYING to do so proves conclusively that we like the game. What we dont like is being toyed around with by having rules to get a part of the game we ENJOY...then having someone who doesnt like that part of the game rip it away and dangle it in front of us as bait to get us to run thru all the parts of the game we DONT LIKE.
I said I'll play WoW until Im no longer enjoying it. Flight makes it more enjoyable for me.
Exploring the game world makes it enjoyable for me.
Running dungeons makes the game enjoyable for me.
Farming ghost iron ore and Gromsblood makes the game fun for me.
Running quest after mind numbing quest for weeks on end just to get something like flight doesnt.
And I have no intention of even accidently doing it. In fact, I'll go out of my way to avoid ever getting flight on Draenor or Broken Isles just to prove a point. In the end it doesnt matter for those areas anyway since I can throw a digital rock and hit either end because they are so small, which i figure is a main reason why theyre fighting so hard against us getting flight like we do in previous expansions. Keep us on the ground to grind our hearts out BEFORE we realize just how small the zone is.
Not a problem really. I mean who wants to run, ride or fly across the vast expanse of nothing to get to the next objective anyway? Not me. But, I DO like to explore, so a smaller game world, running or flying, means less exploring = less of that enjoyment of the game I mentioned above = eventual boredom and ultimately taking the $300/ 5 months the wife and I spent to some other game.
Ive seen some comments about flying being about avoiding mobs. Since I play Prot Warrior and Vengeance DH anymore, I have zero concerned about being unable to deal with even the largest mobs IF they manage to unmount me in either of those expansions. Remember, I like the fighting aspect of the game, so its of little consequence if I am forced to. So riding versus flying in that regard isnt of any consequence to me. I enjoy flight for mining, etc...and simply for flights sake...to explore and see the stuff I havent seen and wont see because I have no way of getting to that part of the map even if I could see it.
As I said, I'll play the game until I stop having fun.
I find myself having less and less fun since I started WoD and then Legion. Pandaria was the last zone I actually enjoyed. We'll see about BfA. When Im not having fun anymore, the wife and I will take our $300 / 5 months and go find another game to play.
Most of the fun Im failing to have is lack of flying in the last two expansions since I refuse to do the questing to get it after having gotten it by leveling up previously.
Since this game has everything I like to have fun.....farming, fighting, dungeons, fishing, etc...there technically shouldnt ever be reason for me to have to quit. But Im betting that the irritation Im feeling even now as Im writing this about the whole pathfinder thing will eventually overwhelm the feelings of fondness i have for farming Ghost Iron Ore in Pandaria (what I was actually doing when I decided to write this) and I'll quit playing anyway.
Yes, I know this game will go on if and when I move along. No, that doesnt bother me in the slightest. What bothers me is the idea of having to leave this game, not because there is any real reason for it or that I dont enjoy playing it, but solely because I dont like being toyed with over something so trivial as a mode of travel.
There are only two real things about this game that would cause me to quit.
The first is something I can avoid quite easily. Other players. I can simply leave instance if there is a problem with a player, so I probably wont end up leaving over that. Thank you Blizzard for listening to the real majority of your player base and creating things like PvE to remedy the problems.
The second is obvious. Pathfinder requirements that I’ll never meet because I dont want to.
Yes….its Blizzards game to do with as they wish.
And its my $300 / 5 months to spend on a game that doesnt decide to rip the fun out of one of the main things I enjoy about it.
Blizzard needs our money.
I dont actually need their game.
Nuff said.
Post by
Myrroddin
I admit to skimming your post, as I am busy doing multiple things at once. That said, these are some very quick responses:
Yes, the Blizzard Store sells mounts for real money (or WoW Tokens converted into Store credit).
Nobody needs to buy mounts from the Store. We all get both ground and flying mounts in game via either quests, drops, or gold.
WoD and Legion are huge grinds to unlock flying, but neither expansion had any intention of allowing flying in the first place.
If a player does not want to grind the requirements to unlock flying, that is on the player, not Blizzard. See the above line.
Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms did not gain flying until the Cataclysm expansion, which was a good six or so years after initial game launch.
In vanilla, most players could not even afford mounts and their training because gold was so hard to grind. Be happy with that change.
Battle for Azeroth will most likely continue not allowing flying at first, and expect a big quest and reputation grind to unlock it.
Battle for Azeroth might not even allow flying at all, given that Blizzard regrets putting flying into the game in the first place.
Post by
Adamsm
given that Blizzard regrets putting flying into the game in the first place.Bit of a misquote there: They regret putting in flying as early as they did for Cataclysm since most people just did the fly over the mobs, kill the quest mob/grab the quest item, then fly away thing. They've never said they regretted flying, and have said repeatedly it's something that will usually be added after the character hit's max level for the expac, it just may need to have something added into make it 'difficult', with alts having an 'easier' time to get it; IE the BoA tomes to learn it, or making the unlock account wide. Of course, it's a fake difficulty to try to extend player attention spans when things are boring, but that's something completely different.
Post by
Ithenell
I admit to skimming your post, as I am busy doing multiple things at once. That said, these are some very quick responses:
Yes, the Blizzard Store sells mounts for real money (or WoW Tokens converted into Store credit).
Nobody needs to buy mounts from the Store. We all get both ground and flying mounts in game via either quests, drops, or gold.
WoD and Legion are huge grinds to unlock flying, but neither expansion had any intention of allowing flying in the first place.
If a player does not want to grind the requirements to unlock flying, that is on the player, not Blizzard. See the above line.
Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms did not gain flying until the Cataclysm expansion, which was a good six or so years after initial game launch.
In vanilla, most players could not even afford mounts and their training because gold was so hard to grind. Be happy with that change.
Battle for Azeroth will most likely continue not allowing flying at first, and expect a big quest and reputation grind to unlock it.
Battle for Azeroth might not even allow flying at all, given that Blizzard regrets putting flying into the game in the first place.
The point wasnt that anyone 'needs' to buy mounts.
It was that they SELL flying mounts then ask you to jump thru hoops to FLY with those mounts you paid hard earned cash for.
I wont be purchasing mounts again, for certain, because of this very point.
In fact, Im probably not going to be giving them a dime beyond our sub prices ever again until this game with flying is abandoned.
There was no VALID reason to make flying for the last two...and at least the next...expansion(s) as it hasnt harmed anyones experience playing the game.
Blizzard made two crappy expansions that were horribly small, which is ok by me given the sheer amount of content contained in both...then decided to agitate players who didnt really need to be made that way by playing this game with pathfinder, that got worse in legion from what I understand, and is set to get even worse in BfA.
From what I read, yes it WAS intended for flight in WoD...just not right off.
Its ok,youre right...I DONT have to and wont grind flying if for no other reason than just to spite myself... and yes Its their game...and its MY money, that $300+ I spent in about 5 months, that I can take elsewhere to a game Im not getting agitated with over such trivial nonsense as a mode of travel.
I dont care what vanilla had or how it was. I didnt play vanilla and wouldnt have for long had I tried it based on what Ive heard about it.
((Battle for Azeroth might not even allow flying at all, given that Blizzard regrets putting flying into the game in the first place.))
ie Blizzard SELLS you a 'flying' mount for real US dollars, then tells you that you cant actually FLY with it. And some players actually then try to justify this nonsense.
Im starting to figure out their business model at this point. I can understand why they lose so many paying customers at points.
IF flight were causing real problems, yeah, I get it.
But we ALL know its not and that the previous model used in MoP was not any problem at all.
I know players who played Pandaria, loved it and had zero issues with flying causing problems with their game play.
This wasnt a problem til Blizzard made it a problem.
If we want to talk REAL problems, lets talk Demon Hunter.
The tank version is off the charts as far as being too unbalanced in the game. I go into alliance areas, get tagged as PvP and even being ganged by other players and lots of 110 NPCs my health bar barely moves. The bigger the gang Im going against, the better this thing fares against them.
Secondly both DH specs have a Serious unbalancing advantage in Broken Isles.
I can EASILY get to places with Havoc that I cant get to at all without flying on any other class Ive played on my account or my wifes.
When DH can get to places and get items, chests, ores, etc, that OTHER classes cant get to without flying, THAT is a REAL problem that needs to be resolved.
Post by
Myrroddin
You are looking at it totally backwards. Think of it this way: if Blizzard never put flying into the game, there would be zero flying mounts. Your chicken and egg are not in the correct order. In fact, Blizzard put both flying and flying mounts into the game at the same time, with The Burning Crusade expansion.
The players have to "jump through hoops" to get flying anyway, especially with later and current expansions. Only the first two expansions had an easy pay with gold method. Since you didn't play those expansions, your whole argument becomes undone.
In fact, Im probably not going to be giving them a dime beyond our sub prices ever again until this game with flying is abandoned.
Flying will never be removed, so, um... goodbye, I guess?
Post by
Ithenell
You are looking at it totally backwards. Think of it this way: if Blizzard never put flying into the game, there would be zero flying mounts. Your chicken and egg are not in the correct order. In fact, Blizzard put both flying and flying mounts into the game at the same time, with The Burning Crusade expansion.
The players have to "jump through hoops" to get flying anyway, especially with later and current expansions. Only the first two expansions had an easy pay with gold method. Since you didn't play those expansions, your whole argument becomes undone.
In fact, Im probably not going to be giving them a dime beyond our sub prices ever again until this game with flying is abandoned.
Flying will never be removed, so, um... goodbye, I guess?
faulty reasoning.
Had man not invented the wheel, Id be walking everywhere.
But he did invent it..and Im driving where I need to go.
Im looking at it perfectly fine
Blizzard gave us flying, it was perfectly fine, then decided for some reason that they wanted us grounded and started playing games with flying.
I have to assume that it was because they knew that content in WoD and Legion was so bad that the only way to force most to grind it out was to dangle something they wanted in front of them hoping they'd bite.
Im not that sort. I'll not do PF even if I could just to make a point.
Not sure what you meant in your last line. I dont want flying removed. Just the opposite. I want Pathfinder made less annoying so I dont have to BE annoyed with it so the end result is I dont feel like I want to quit a game I otherwise enjoy.
Again...had flying caused problems in the game for everyone, yeah...Id be first in line to ditch it like Im saying that demon hunter needs serious fixes to be even remotely fair compared to other classes. It has REAL game altering advantages over other classes that I can see after having played it for about two weeks maybe.
Flying didnt cause any problems, we all know it, so the only thing I can conclude from Blizzard starting the pathfinder thing was, again, because content was so bad, as evidenced by the WoD hate all over the web, that they knew theyd have to bait a lot of players to play it thru with PF.
MoP was a wonderful expansion. I go back there just to relax and gather.
No pathfinder there to be found
WoD was horrible.Just horrible.
All of a sudden we see Pathfinder forcing you to play the mind numbing quests...not just quests....MIND NUMBING quests. Which is the problem and I think they knew it was going to be and as we've seen by so many saying WoD is horrible.
Not a game I'll be willing to play forever, Id say, given my short attention span when Im being played
Post by
Adamsm
Even then it wasn't easy; when it first came out, it was 900 gold for expert that was then reduced to 600 and then to 250 and artisan was 1k for a very long time before they dropped it down. Cold Weather flying from Lich King was 1k gold for a very long time as well, and originally only learnable at 70 which sucked if you leveled fast, and were in the Basin where half of the quests there needed flight, and Icecrown was not possible if you didn't have flight there. It was only in Cata that the prices were streamlined down what we have now.
Also: All of the Store flying mounts work as ground mounts as well, so you are using them wherever you like...you look silly using the Bat or the Golden drake on land, but they are usable so it's not like you are locked out from using them. I own pretty much all of the store mounts(and the pets), and I don't consider them wasted money, even though I don't have Legion flying and I barely play the game.
Hell, I use a addon called Livestock that let's me keybind a button to randomly summon any of my mounts; I see the store ones maybe 10% of the time(but I do have over 300 so....).
I've been playing the game since shortly before BC launched, and have only had a lapsed sub for about 6 months in that 12 year time period; I've pumped a lot of money into the game between realm transfers, race transfers, the pets and store mounts, buying the collector's editions of not just WoW but the other franchise as well, and I don't regret those purchases. I do have massive burn out right now, and I'm not excited for Battle because it's Cata/Mists re-hash, but hey, I'll probably still get the collectors when it comes out because I'll want the mount and pet that will come with it.
If you are dissatisfied with one aspect of the game though, show it with your money and stop paying the sub and just walk away.
Post by
Ithenell
((If you are dissatisfied with one aspect of the game though, show it with your money and stop paying the sub and just walk away.))
Thats what Im trying to avoid.
I like the game and liked flying up thru Pandaria. Didnt see a single issue with flight causing any problems enjoying the game at all.
Get to WoD and got irritated enough that I turned off experience at 90 for the next character for a bit because I had decided to just stop leveling past WoP...just pretend thats my end game and forget the rest.
But then I thought that maybe at some future point Blizzard might stop being vindictive about flying and this would all work out, so I turned leveling back on for that Warrior who is now 110 with 916 i level, if memory serves.
what Id like is for the PF game to stop and Blizzard to quit acting like flying is hurting the game while giving us demon hunters that definitely have advantages over other classes.
I took my DH tank into an alliance city and laid waste to nearly all the 110 guards solo and my health bar twitched once.. In PvP that Ive jumped into with it Ive found that its even better than the Prot warrior, especially if you can sucker people into ganging up on you and your keybinds are set up right. The more opponents that dogpile a Vengeance DH the better this thing does at cleaning house.
In my mind THAT is far more of a problem in the game than flying is, has been and will be.
Post by
Adamsm
But they aren't being 'vindictive' about flying; you can crank out Warlords flying in a weekend, and Legion in about a week or so, possibly even faster if you have the World Quest buff. It's not like it's a huge lock; most of what you do, you do as you level anyway.
Even in Mists they had a no fly zone; the Timeless Isle, which would be nice to have flying, but it's not a game breaker.
The only places you 'need' flying are to get for 7 instances; The Tempest Keep ones in BC, Blackwing Descent and Twilight Hold in Cata and the Mosh raid in Mists. All of the others are available, and technically with the three dungeons for Tempest Keep, you can use LFD to get in them at level. There are two factions that are locked behind flying in BC, which is Ogri'la and Skyguard, but again, flying in BC is cheap as heck now a days.
The flying unlock is meant to be way to 'keep interest' in the game during those long content lulls,but they can be done and completed. Battle will have the same thing; everything will be viable by land, and flying will just make it simpler.
Also, for one of your complaints in the original post; Legion gathering is the simplest I've ever seen. The nodes are usually a 100 feet at the most between each other, and you'll get dozens of spawns just running around randomly, unlike Mists where they hid spawns up high with special monsters...which again, could be ignored for the most part.
I can see it's annoying for a new player, but for those who did questing on foot/land mounts back in the day, it's the way the game is. Blizzard has a mindset that Flying is a reward that should be earned, even if the 'earning' is done though tedious grinds.
Also, guards don't mean much; they have a set program after all. No one has soloed a faction leader as DH, which can't be said for previous expacs where they pulled that off. DH's are pretty unstoppable...unless it's elite mobs, then they waste you just as badly as anyone else if you aren't fighting smart.
Post by
Myrroddin
I'm not clear what Demon Hunters have to do with Flying. Did I miss something? I exclusively play a Demon Hunter, and while some of the tricks are new, there isn't anything dominating about the class in either spec. Munching city guards is fairly easy at level 110 for any character. I'm not in the game right now, but if memory serves, the guards are lower level than 110.
But that is totally beside the point. If you think Pathfinder is a pain in the neck, I agree. I think WoD's Pathfinder was a worse grind than Legion's, simply because daily quests don't measure up to world quests. WoD was more heavily time gated because of daily quests.
However, if your point is that you are not doing Pathfinder to make a point, I 100% guarantee Blizzard is not listening. Most people do get Pathfinder, and while yes, Blizzard has got some feedback saying that the grind was a headache, in the end, the player base went ahead and did it anyway.
Standing by your values is awesome, and for that I salute you. But in the end, you are the proverbial candle in the hurricane.
Post by
Ithenell
((The only places you 'need' flying are to get for 7 instances; ))
meh. As far as 'need' goes, I dont really need flying at all. Anywhere I want to get to, especially as a DH, is easily gotten to so far.
its more about the attitude of Blizzard thats my problem with it all.
They know flying isnt an issue, so there was no reason to make it any more than it was for MoP.....level and gold....but they do, and then to have players try to justify it just adds to the irritation factor on my part.
Its a game.
My real life ****es me off enough. I dont need more irritation from the game Ive put hundreds into that is SUPPOSED to be my escape from real word annoyances.
((I'm not clear what Demon Hunters have to do with Flying. Did I miss something? ))
I didnt get it either...till I jumped off the edge of Dalaran, hit glide and was able to get where I wanted to get, pin point style like flying.
The same can be done from high mountain.
Not saying it IS flying...saying that it allows you to get where other classes pretty much cant without some sort of external assistance like goblin gliders which may or may not be currently for sale on the AH.
And dont get me started on being able to get to things with DH without flying that I have no chance of getting with other classes.
Ive played rogue, warrior and DH in the game so far. I absolutely CAN get to things like ores with the DH, especially in havoc spec, that I cant get to with either other class.
I showed my wife how I can jump, burst forward twice and cross bodies of water and from one ledge to another with Havoc that cannot be accomplished with other classes without flying.
I had helped take down a world boss a few days ago with a crowd...and now we're all trying to just get thru the trash to get to the next world event ASAP.
We had to cross a one of those chasms with the large shardy rock legdes which *I* was able to cross with Havoc without blinking.
The rest of the group I was with couldnt and so they were left behind to deal with the mob of world trash before they could catch up.
yeah...DH, especially in Havoc with movement and Vengeance with mob violence, has some serious and unfair advantages over other classes
Standing by your values is awesome, and for that I salute you. But in the end, you are the proverbial candle in the hurricane.
General Discussion on the official forums says this is wrong.
new PF hate threads filled to the brim with like minded posts daily.
Post by
Adamsm
its more about the attitude of Blizzard thats my problem with it all.
They know flying isnt an issue, so there was no reason to make it any more than it was for MoP.....level and gold....but they do, and then to have players try to justify it just adds to the irritation factor on my part.
Its a game.
My real life ****es me off enough. I dont need more irritation from the game Ive put hundreds into that is SUPPOSED to be my escape from real word annoyances.It's a good thing you don't play FFXIV then; you have to complete all of the original main quest story line for the regular game, then do all of Heavensward before you can start in on Stormblood. And if you want to fly? You have to do 5 different quests to unlock one part of it, then find 10 locations in the zone by playing hot/cold to figure out where they are.
In other words, companies do stuff to attempt to either change up the game or put in false longevity. In Blizzard's case, that's the Pathfinder, which again, for Legion at least, you've got most of the way done by the time you hit 110 anyway, since you need to do at least one full quest clear of all 5 major zones to unlock all of the World Quests, and then do it again for Broken Shore and Argus.
I'm not justifying what Blizzard has done; I'm saying why they did it because they can't just put it behind a gold sink anymore, unless they changed 20k+ because gold is stupidly easy to make in Legion; I'm sitting on 600k right now across my toons and if I had resources, I'd be even higher. It's not a good decision, but it's the choice they've made and in this case the only way to make them notice is to quit sadly.
~
Goblin Gliders have been a thing since Mists; they've always been used in that manner, and they aren't hard to make/find the pattern for. Also, I've done the same thing with my Warrior; Heroic Leap lets you go up the side of mountains without having to traverse the long path, and you can leap off the top of things and use Leap just before you hit the ground to land safely. Charge helps too; as long as there is a path, you can use mobs to zip around without any real issues.
But the fastest for getting anywhere are still Mages and Paladins; jump off something, hit Ice Block and Bubble just before you land and you are fine.
Post by
Ithenell
It's a good thing you don't play FFXIV then; you have to complete all of the original main quest story line for the regular game,
Yep...just looking at FF14 and it is definitely not for me based on some of the things I was seeing.
Skyrim was fun for a bit, but its so limited that I get bored pretty quickly after firing it up again. Same with Oblivion.
WoW is hopefully not going to keep getting any more irritating with stuff that I know doesnt HAVE to be that way so I can keep playing.
I mean, the wife already quit playing WoW. I have paid her sub the last two months but she stopped playing and went back to skyrim nearly two months ago.
I bought her two mounts on the sale thinking it may get her interested again, but after the new years fireworks show was over she bailed again.
Probably wont pay her sub next time around and figure she's likely not coming back to the game.
For me I like most of the game.
I just dont like the endless questing concept.
Never have...so thankfully they made a way for folks like me to level up without doing all those quests.
Just seems kinda silly and petty to let me pretty much ignore all those quests letting me level up to 110 in LFR only to try to force me back into questing to get something as trivial as flight for those nifty new flying mounts I paid cash for.
Post by
Ithenell
In other words, companies do stuff to attempt to either change up the game or put in false longevity. In Blizzard's case, that's the Pathfinder, which again, for Legion at least, you've got most of the way done by the time you hit 110 anyway,
No...I get it...and PF in concept is fine..but I dont see the reason why it has to be flight thats the jackpot.
Most players who like questing and RPG are probably much easier to satisfy with other payouts like reputation and maybe elite equipment for running all that material, and they SHOULD get something far better than a form of travel previously treated as pretty much commonplace.
Having the pot at the end of the rainbow be a mode of travel that you could get with pocket change and max zone level previously...well, seems to almost be insulting to the player base.
Post by
Adamsm
I just dont like the endless questing concept.
Never have...so thankfully they made a way for folks like me to level up without doing all those quests.
Just seems kinda silly and petty to let me pretty much ignore all those quests letting me level up to 110 in LFR only to try to force me back into questing to get something as trivial as flight for those nifty new flying mounts I paid cash for.You don't like quests...so what are you doing playing WoW in the first place? It's a game that was based on questing after all, especially with Legion where you need to do the zone quests to unlock the reps and world quests.
Myself, I love XIV for having one of the best story lines I've run across in a video game, whether it's an MMO or single player. I've got multiple classes on their way to max level, and I have done the Aether Current unlocks to fly in Heavensward and Stormblood which is enjoyable, but would have actually taken things away while doing the Stormblood main quest line, since travel is important.
well, seems to almost be insulting to the player base.It was the player base themselves who originally complained about flying making everything too easy; too easy to quest, too easy to escape world pvp, too easy to get items blah blah blah. Blizzard responded to said comments, and there are those who were happy with it...and then you have people complaining about it. So they went the middle ground with the Pathfinder in Draenor as a way to be certain that the first character that went through new content would experience it rather than skipping over it. It's not required to get into the dungeons/raids this time around; all entrances are at ground level so you can just walk in and if you don't want to do it, you can just ignore it. If you want to fly, then you put in the extra few hours to unlock it.
Having the pot at the end of the rainbow be a mode of travel that you could get with pocket change and max zone level previouslyBut it wasn't pocket change before; it used to be incredibly expensive in their respective expacs, but since Draenor and Legion are the gold mine expacs, you couldn't do that again, unless flying was extremely expensive. There were Garrison missions that would award 500+ gold, and you've got Legion Order Hall ones handing out 1.5k and higher, so you'd have it in no time, which isn't what Blizzard wants, they want the fake longevity that Pathfinder provides as a way to string things along after they release their last major patch and focus on the next Expac.
Post by
Ithenell
But it wasn't pocket change before; it used to be incredibly expensive in their respective expacs,
I think I paid 2500gp for Pandaria flying.
I get 4000 for ONE trip around Pandaria mining Ghost Iron ore.
In my mind getting flying for what takes about 40 minutes on a slow day to gather up isnt much more than pocket change.
It was the player base themselves who originally complained about flying making everything too easy;
that I dont understand.
when i want things to be harder Im not complaining to Blizzard that its too hard....I take off some of that high end armor that I grinded to get.
Players are hysterical in this game, honestly.
In one breath I hear them screaming that something is too hard....in the next its too easy.
They fight PvP and bosses to get that high end gear with its god like bonuses...then turn around and scream at blizzard that they can one shot everything.
Frankly there is no pleasing some of the player base...and i think Blizzard should stop trying to.
The game play needed some tweaks, no doubt, but if people think its fixed by the leveling and scaling changes, I hope they arent expecting too much.
Leveling for example will still be problematic.
If I can get 100% more experience while Im playing in a zone than I need to max level in that zone because Im playing dungeons, Im still leaving that zone over max level.
The scaling will help, but at some point Im leaving Kalimdor at level 80 instead of 60 because I ran 200 dungeons in the meantime.
the changes will help, but they arent fixing the problems without all experience being removed from the game other than the current zone being played
Sadly, at which point Im done playing WoW because I dont like the quest grinding.
WoW worked for me for the simple fact that I can level up in LFR..but experience given in LFR is part of whats causing havoc with leveling too quickly after 15 or whenever you can start usijng the group finder.
Anyway...while the PF thing does annoy the crap out of me, I'll likely just ignore it.
Broken Isles and WoD are too small to worry about and I didnt even touch Draenor with this last character and wont.
I dont really need flying in small zones anyway...and I am finding myself spending less time in Broken Isles and more in Pandaria and Kalimdor where I can use flight anyway.
I'll keep leveling up in the group finder, doing the bare minimums in new expansions to get the upgrades I want and leave most of the coming expansions unplayed.
seems to be the best way to keep from being annoyed by PF for me.
Post by
Ithenell
As a side note to you all...thanks for the civil exchange.
I enjoyed the points made, even if we dont necessarily see eye to eye on every detail.
Post by
Ithenell
You don't like quests...so what are you doing playing WoW in the first place? It's a game that was based on questing after all, especially with Legion where you need to do the zone quests to unlock the reps and world quests.
Back to some other points...
No...this game isnt just about questing.
Wow is actually about WAR and FIGHTING...hence the end game thats all the rave that is all about PvP and raiding content.
Questing is one way to get there. Dungeons is another.
The goal of this game is END game to do all that crap that hasnt got a thing to do with questing.
Evidently Blizzard decided to play it smart and give me OTHER options to level up and get to that end game play by allowing me to do it in dungeons.
As far as legion goes...yep...and I did as little as possible to open up world 'instances' and as soon as I was able to do them I stopped bothering with the quests being given by the characters in the game EXCEPT when they offer Veiled Argunite that I need to buy 910 upgrades...or when the quest itself gives a good upgrade specifically.
I am not interesting in quests.
I bought the game for adventuring the map, fighting NPCs, PvP from time to time and for running dungeons, raids and battle grounds.
This game is multifaceted in that way, thankfully, otherwise Id have already stopped paying my sub.
Goblin Gliders have been a thing since Mists;
the problem is that they arent always for sale in the AH as I found when I needed them most, and why when they were for sale I stocked up and use them sparingly for my Prot and Rogue.
That said, they arent really a replacement for the wings that the DH has that as far as I can tell has no time limit.
Let alone the Fel Rush on the havoc.
With Prot warrior your target spot HAS to be line of sight. I have had a curb sized obstacle between me and my target spot and gotten the 'not in line of sight' error many times.
With Fel Rush there is no such limitation. It just shoots you till you hit something. And if you jump up first, you have nothing stopping you and can jump across pretty far distances, as well as gliding down at the end of the jump.
Jump, jump, Rush, rush, glide.
I can cross a canyon doing that for the most part.
Ive been able to 'climb' very steep inclines using Fel Rush that in places that I was not able to get to with my rogue or my warrior.
I stand up against what Im trying to climb and hit fel rush twice and generally can 'climb' steep inclines not normally being climable.
The prot warrior jump is good, but it isnt nearly has useful as DH wings. I cant jump off the side of Dalaran and glide half way across the broken isles to a pinpoint target landing like I can with DH.
In my mind the DH, as much as I love it and it has become my favorite class, it is very much at unfair advantages for the reasons I mentioned previously based on my time playing it.
I think some PvP players in the casual battlegrounds might probably agree were they here to lay out the details of a few skirmishes we've had over the last 10 days or so.
The DH tank is off the charts, as far as Im concerned. The more opponents I can drag into a fight, the less my health bar moves thanks to soul bomb. I can clear a mob easier than I can a single target.
its been the same in the BGs. If I can sucker a group of players, especially hunters with their pets, into ganging up on me within soul bomb range, the fight goes very badly for most of them. And god help them if i have a healer within a stones throw.
Im NOT a very good player. Mediocre at best. Probably worse given my sucking so bad with the Rogue I have. So its not me or my ability. Its the fact that the DH tank is far too unbalanced, in my opinion.
Post by
Nulgar
As others, mostly scrolled down your post, this was the first thing that caught my eye:
And since this game is ABOUT PvP
Nope. World of Warcraft is at its core a
cooperative
online RPG, questing, dungeons, raids.
PvP is an additional feature that was basically "just there" in Vanilla and has since been expanded. Not all MMOs have this, and of those that do, some have only voluntary PvP (the equivalent of duels and battlegrounds/arenas)
The "war" in Warcraft stems from the original RTS games, but even then, it was about the story of X vs Y, you played against the AI, but could also play against other players.
From the rest of your post, I gather that you're displeased with the time and effort it takes to unlock flying. While yes, it's an artificial hurdle, none of the Draenor or Legion Pathfinder requirements were that much of a deal for regular (as in frequent) players.
My only complaint would be that it should be available from the launch of the expansion, or with the first content patch. Then, it could be even more "farm-y" to make it a little bit more exclusive at the beginning.
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