This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Talent tree for pure PvE, quest only!
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
48099
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Selim
I say go with frost and some fire. something like this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=obZVrhzbcZbAGcsbxsqoz
Post by
6893
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skyfire
I would advise 10/0/51 (maybe 17/0/44) or 10/48/3, though I'm leaning toward Frost for you. However, if you're going to raid past Karazhan / Zul'Aman, then I'd lean back toward 10/48/3. If you're just gonna go with Kara / ZA, then probably Frost. That said, you should try out all the builds; it really does help you to learn about your class, as well as teach you how to deal with others.
Um,
this
would be the build for 10/51.
@ Nick: Ew @ Arctic Winds. ew ew ew ew ew. :P And not-full shatter? whyyyyy?
Post by
Aeliel
What's wrong with Arctic Winds? o_O Surely the extra 5% frost damage helps?
Also: Arcane Subtlety? I was under the impression that minus to resistances (aka spell penetration) was purely a pvp stat, except in very specific, rare cases (mobs that are highly resistant to magic in general).
This
is my spec right now,
this
is what I was considering respeccing to once I start doing instances more than once in a blue moon (just taking points off Permafrost and putting them in Elemental Precision).
I've done instances a few times though, and even when going all out and critting several times in a row, I don't run out of mana and don't pull aggro.
Am I doing something wrong?
Is there a point (in terms of, say, +spelldamage) where the extra 5% mana cost reduction is worth more than the extra 1% damage from Arctic Winds (moving one point from Arctic Winds to max out Frost Channelling? Or is it always worth more?
How do I gauge the value of Permafrost? It's been absolutely priceless in kiting things outside instances, but is it worth more or less than the 1-3% damage I'd lose from taking 1-3 points in Arctic Winds?
Lastly: why Imprpved Cone of Cold? I almost never use CoC, either outside of instances (things die before they get to me) or inside (things don't get to me period; most of the time I'm not particularly wanting to get in range to cast CoC, due to whirlwinds, cleaves, and suchlike).
In terms of AoEing things down, what's the relative value of Blizzard vs CoC vs Arcane Explosion? Which is more effective?
Would putting points in Improved Blizzard be worthwhile? Or would that make AoEing things harder due to Frostbite?
I am, clearly, not good at maths. :P Save me from being a stupid mage!
Post by
zacke10
Aeliel, if I would start doing instances, I would definitly maxout Frost Channeling, since it reduces threat as well as mana cost of all frostspells, and that is very handy.
Also in the arcane tree I would take 2/2 in Arcane Subtlety, since some bosses/mobs actually do resist some or all frost damage once in a while, and we don't want that! The remaning 3 points would go into arcane focus to get arcane concentration.
Except for that I think your build is good!
Post by
Aeliel
You haven't really read my post or answered the questions I asked in it :)
Concerning the two things (of many) that you mentioned:
1. If I don't pull aggro or run out of mana in instances, would having 2/3 Frost Channeling as opposed to 3/3 be so bad?
2. Assuming 3/3 in Elemental Precision and +spellhit otherwise capped as appropriate, is 2/2 in Arcane Subtlety that absolutely necessary? (And I mean "absolutely necessary", I'm not out to go raiding and top DPS meters, I just want to run instances now and then - even if I get a resist once in a blue moon, as long as the thing dies before the group does, who cares?)
(And same if I run out of mana / pull aggro once in a blue moon, for that matter, re: Frost Channeling. That's what Invisibility / blink-to-tank-and-iceblock / mana gems / mana potions are for.)
Post by
6893
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skyfire
What's wrong with Arctic Winds? o_O Surely the extra 5% frost damage helps?
Seeing as avoiding melee by "5%" isn't going to help you much (really, if you're doing your job right, you should never be getting hit), then it's basically a duplicate of Piercing Ice, which gives you an extra 1% for 2 talents less.Also: Arcane Subtlety? I was under the impression that minus to resistances (aka spell penetration) was purely a pvp stat, except in very specific, rare cases (mobs that are highly resistant to magic in general).
It's for the threat loss, not the -resistance. You
will
be using Arcane spells at some point in your life, whether it be Arcane Blast, Explosion, Polymorph, or Counterspell (which produces a
lot
of threat), and so it's a really good talent. :)
This
is my spec right now,
this
is what I was considering respeccing to once I start doing instances more than once in a blue moon (just taking points off Permafrost and putting them in Elemental Precision).
I've done instances a few times though, and even when going all out and critting several times in a row, I don't run out of mana and don't pull aggro.
Am I doing something wrong?
Yes. You obviously aren't going all out hard enough ;). Drop some +int items for some +damage / hit / crit items. Naturally, if all your gear is "blue", this might be harder to do, but if you're using "green" gear, either get it upgraded to blue, or replace the green +int items with one of those three.Is there a point (in terms of, say, +spelldamage) where the extra 5% mana cost reduction is worth more than the extra 1% damage from Arctic Winds (moving one point from Arctic Winds to max out Frost Channelling? Or is it always worth more?
5% reduction in mana cost is
always
worth more. Take a mana pool of 10k. Frostbolt (example) costs 1k mana, while doing 1k damage (example). Now, without any talents, you'll get 10k damage in 30 seconds. With that extra 1%, your Frostbolts are doing 1010 dmg, which means you deal 10100 damage in 30 seconds. With 5% less, we get a mana cost of 950. 950 times 10 = 9500 mana for 10k damage. You'll note that this is 100 damage short of the other value.. Now, this is where most might argue with me; your damage should come as fast as possible. But Frost Channeling increases your total mana efficiency far and above that of Arctic Winds. It's all a moot point if you don't take Arctic Winds, which you shouldn't (as I outlined above).How do I gauge the value of Permafrost? It's been absolutely priceless in kiting things outside instances, but is it worth more or less than the 1-3% damage I'd lose from taking 1-3 points in Arctic Winds?
You'll kite things in instances, too. Say you take aggro; being able to kite until your tank is able to deal with it is priceless. And it holds far better PvP implications than does Arctic Winds. Any PvP, whether world or instanced.
Lastly: why Imprpved Cone of Cold? I almost never use CoC, either outside of instances (things die before they get to me) or inside (things don't get to me period; most of the time I'm not particularly wanting to get in range to cast CoC, due to whirlwinds, cleaves, and suchlike).
Imp CoC is an AoE / PvP talent. I don't know how much AoE there is above 60, but that's the usage of it. It
also
helps with kiting, as it's a terrible spell to use without the talent (mana efficiency is the primary reason).In terms of AoEing things down, what's the relative value of Blizzard vs CoC vs Arcane Explosion? Which is more effective?
Imp CoC -> CoC -> Imp Bliz -> AE -> non imp Bliz. Blizzard doesn't do the damage fast enough, and without Imp Blizzard, it just plain sucks. This is why you take Arc Subtlety; so your AE isn't possibly so dangerous anymore.Would putting points in Improved Blizzard be worthwhile? Or would that make AoEing things harder due to Frostbite?
Well, Frostbite's the culprit in that situation, not the other way around. I personally would rather have Frostbite, as it's the talent to take with Shatter. It's also a much more effective spell in soloing quests and mobs (really, who would use Imp Blizzard for one mob? :)I am, clearly, not good at maths. :P Save me from being a stupid mage!
More than anything, that was all common sense (except for Channeling). As an addendum, there are no such things as "Stupid questions"; only people who don't ask questions can be labeled stupid. :P
Im at council atm, been raiding for years and hardly pvp. Never been frost either, so I DONT KNO LOL :)
Like I said, it looked right but i guess my pveer took over :P
The latter's a bigger problem than the former. Being a PvEr didn't help. :P
Post by
Aeliel
What's wrong with Arctic Winds? o_O Surely the extra 5% frost damage helps?
Seeing as avoiding melee by "5%" isn't going to help you much (really, if you're doing your job right, you should never be getting hit), then it's basically a duplicate of Piercing Ice, which gives you an extra 1% for 2 talents less.
Ahh, okay - fair point.
Also: Arcane Subtlety? I was under the impression that minus to resistances (aka spell penetration) was purely a pvp stat, except in very specific, rare cases (mobs that are highly resistant to magic in general).
It's for the threat loss, not the -resistance. You
will
be using Arcane spells at some point in your life, whether it be Arcane Blast, Explosion, Polymorph, or Counterspell (which produces a
lot
of threat), and so it's a really good talent. :)
And fair point there too. I wasn't seeing it that way - will definitely grab it when I respec, then. Haven't had issues with CS threat so far, but not getting smushed is a Good Thing if I'm running with tanks who are less than stellar.
Am I doing something wrong?
Yes. You obviously aren't going all out hard enough ;).
Hehe. Point. I
am
somewhat undergeared, though I've always gone for dmg / hit / crit items. I've mostly gotten geared through questing on my way to 70, though, as finding pre-70 PuGs on my server is a nightmare. Armory's flaking out on me right now so I can't post a link, but I don't think I'm going too wrong on the gear (I hope :P). I do know I'm still short on +hit (nowhere near the cap, even for lvl72 boss mobs, nevermind skulls) and perhaps a bit too heavy on crit over spelldamage (from memory, 18%ish crit 600ish spelldamage with Molten Armor on), but if gear replacements don't drop, there's not much I can do. (That, and most of my gear is unenchanted, but I'm kind of wary of enchanting gear I won't be keeping for a long time.)
Fair points also re: everything else. I definitely think I have a better clue now :) Thank you very much!
Post by
Noyomo
At 60 I was frost, found it very nice, I know I survived alot of situations I would have died had I been fire or arc, I was using a build like
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=ooZZVVGIofxsiot
at the time, filling out the arcane tree to clear casting as I got to 70, it leaves one free point to do what ever with. but if your stuck at 60 with no BC I would say a 10/0/41 build would be good if you want to go with frost.
Though alittle off topic, if your frost, and in a raid situation, I like a build like
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oi0Vc0cZZVA0cof0sVqt
for pure damage as frost.
Post by
76558
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
48099
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
94076
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.