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Finishing move for Bosses in raids?
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Post by
Erona
Ok, well I am a up and coming rogue (no, not a newb, I have 2 other 70s that have done Hyjal/BT :P) and I just got
Envenom
. In raids I will be using Deadly Poison on my OH and Aesthetic Poison on my MH probably (suggestions?). Now, with that said, I am confused by Envenom. At its max ability it takes 5 Combo Points and 5 stacks of Deadly Poison to do its max damage. Here is what im posting about. It seems like
Eviscerate
and
Rupture
would do far greater damage than Envenom with 5 CP and 5 stacks of DP.
I am a combat Fist/Sword rogue with the classic points in Assassination tree for my build.
Basically, what is the point of Envenom, I dont see it ever being usefull or used, and which is a better finisher to use on raid bosses of those 3?
Thanks.
Post by
KidB
This
will answer any and all questions you may be wondering about.
Post by
kicklucky
PART V - PVE
Maximise your rupture uptime without dropping slice and dice. As long as you're not refreshing slice and dice early, you're not wasting your energy. Letting slice and dice drop off for a few seconds is more detrimental to your DPS than not managing one more rupture before the slice and dice refresh.
Don't use eviscerate unless you really have to. If your rupture and slice and dice are still up and you've got 5/5 combo points, chances are that you've popped adrenaline rush recently and your energy is now at risk of capping out for a few seconds while you wait for rupture to drop. Don't panic, and don't eviscerate. Sinister striking to prevent an energy cap out while waiting for rupture to drop so you can refresh it is more efficient than letting off eviscerate and building up a slice and dice refresh while missing out on a rupture cycle.
WTB bigger font size for stickied threads, PST.
Post by
18907
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Wanderingfox
As I see it, envenoms main use is to remove your dot allowing you to incap your target.
On a boss use deadly/instant and keep SnD/rupture up (never shiv. Ever).
The only time you use envenom in PvE is when ALL of the below are true:
1. Rupture won't finish by the time the mob dies
2. Your deadly poison stack won't finish by the time the mob dies.
3. You have 3 or more in vile poisons.
If any of those is not true eviscerate will more than likely do more dps.
Post by
kicklucky
The only time you use envenom in PvE is when ALL of the below are true:
1. Never
Post by
Feanora
The only time you use envenom in PvE is when ALL of the below are true:
1. Rupture won't finish by the time the mob dies
2. Your deadly poison stack won't finish by the time the mob dies.
3. You have 3 or more in vile poisons.
You're mutilate, and rolling with double deadly. If that's not the case, just take it off your bar.
Post by
Wanderingfox
The only time you use envenom in PvE is when ALL of the below are true:
1. Rupture won't finish by the time the mob dies
2. Your deadly poison stack won't finish by the time the mob dies.
3. You have 3 or more in vile poisons.
You're mutilate, and rolling with double deadly. If that's not the case, just take it off your bar.
Umm why would you give up the extra 200 damage when the damage from the deadly stack and/or a rupture won't tick off by the time it ends?
Nevermind the fact that if there's an enhancement shaman in the raid you stand a fairly good chance of hitting one of his stormstrike charges as well.
Like I said above, its not to be used often, but it does have its place (as the last finisher you'll use on a boss).
Post by
Feanora
Mutilate rogues with double deadly get them stacked up fast enough, in general, that the extra damage from envenom vs. eviscerate outweighs the lost damage from missing DP ticks. And either way, direct damage finishers are only used in mutilate when you already have both SnD up and rupture ticking.
Post by
Wanderingfox
I think you missed when i said "last finisher used on the mob" I only EVER hit it when I'm in a situation where I have 5 combo points, 5 dp, rupture is just about to drop off, and the mob will not last more than another 2 or 3 seconds. Honestly, it's probably moot at that point, but might as well burn it rather than waste the CPs on something that won't have the time to complete.
Post by
Feanora
I think we're talking about different things. I'm just explaining why it's viable for a mutilate rogue to use envenom in his/her regular rotation.
Post by
kicklucky
and the mob will not last more than another 2 or 3 seconds.
Does it really matter at that point?
Post by
Wanderingfox
and the mob will not last more than another 2 or 3 seconds.
Does it really matter at that point?Usually no, but I've had times when a mob was say finishing a cast (say something like dark mending) and no one had an interrupt available, if I had used eviscerate there was a good chance it would have survived just long enough to get the cast off, where as if I had used envenom it would not have. Again it's largely moot, but that's the only place for envenom in raids :P
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