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Why cant my guild kill illhoof?
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Post by
Aedalas
Wow. 99% of this thread is "You needs a lock!!!!!"
Hmmmm, could it be that the OP said he is running with two warlocks?
Tell all your AoE class's to "L2play".
Yeah, because Kara has nothing to do with gear....
There isn't 1 way to kill every boss.
While this is true, when you are progressing and having trouble downing a boss it is usually wise to go with the tried and true method.
Warriors,
Rouges
have multi-target (every now and then).
What does a color have to do with anything we have been discussing?
Post by
Celdhyrean
Wow. 99% of this thread is "You needs a lock!!!!!"
Other classes can do it too, however locks are the most efficient class to manage imps on this encounter.
They have 2 locks in their group. Why should they kick them to try another strat without locks ?
Post by
justinc
Your locks need to life tap at about 3k mana...there should be 1 healer that is 100% devoted to healing the lock(s). I solo SoC the imps with np's. Orrrrr you can have your locks alternate if they can't focus enough to life tap...like when one gets to 1k mana the other starts their SoC. Other than that I really dunno what to say.. illhoof is really easy once you get the hang of it.
Post by
Ztrange
Your locks need to life tap at about 3k mana...there should be 1 healer that is 100% devoted to healing the lock(s). I solo SoC the imps with np's. Orrrrr you can have your locks alternate if they can't focus enough to life tap...like when one gets to 1k mana the other starts their SoC. Other than that I really dunno what to say.. illhoof is really easy once you get the hang of it.
If your healers can't handle more than one target to heal then there's no need to worry about the locks, worry about your healers instead. Or better yet, replace them.
While some argue that the perfect setup on Illhoof has at least one warlock, it's as someone wrote earlier about learning to play (With the risk of sounding elitist, but that's really the case). In a normal AoE case, a trash pull for example, you're going all out, pulling aggro and what not. In the case of Illhoof just keep a steady stream of AoE for an easier experience, or you can clear from time to time when you feel the amount of imps is getting out of hand. Communication is the key, not how many locks you have. I'm gonna assume you're running with three healers (If you can make the rest of Kara with two it's just stack and nuke anyway), this is one of the healing assignments you can use, not the absolute one:
Healer 1: Heals raid and focuses a bit more on AoEr.
Healer 2: Heals tank and if needed raid, tank doesn't take that much damage in this fight.
Healer 3: Heals raid and of course also helps out if anything goes wrong.
When sacrifice is applied that should be your main focus, both as healer and dpser. Too low dps on the chains and Illhoof will gain too much health back, too low healing on the player sacrificed and he will (no #$%^, Sherlock) die.
You said your lock runs out of mana early in the fight, this should be easily countered by life tapping (and communicating with healers beforehand of course, since it's their mana he/she is stealing), potting or taking an innervate from a druid. Dropping tide would work too if you've got a shaman. Or giving him a shadow priest in his group if you have that luxury.
If however the whole raid is also running out of mana "too fast" then my bet is you're too slow on the chains, resulting in a long fight.
Someone is gonna argue against something I just wrote and that's fine. If you have good arguments to do something else then by all means continue doing it. This is just a suggestion amongst many others.
Post by
146306
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84594
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Post by
Celdhyrean
@Celdhyrean
Like I already stated, if 2 isn't working then perhaps changing up the groups and trying something else might not be a bad idea.I start with the assumption that their locks are somewhat intelligent and can adapt to the fight if they are told what to do.
Spec isn't that important in that particular fight (though i agree with your statement for what spec is best at their progression level) : a destruction/demo lock has no reason to be OOM either. They get overhealed anyway, might as well make use of it by lifetaping more (in an intelligent manner, naturally). Or they can compensate dark pacts with potions if needed.
What i mean is, handling imps as a warlock is so easy i can't see how changing tactics or setup is going to improve anything. (or those locks should just cancel their subscription)
1. Target Illhoof
2. Cast SoC on Illhoof the whole fight
3. Life Tap regularly, and start as soon as you drop 2k below your total mana pool
4. ??? (whatever optionnal dps you can add if you're good on managing the imps)
5. Profit
I really don't see how it can be made simpler. And the only requirement to that is keeping Illhoof in the sacrifice circle, where he should be anyway to help melee dps chains.
Post by
Aedalas
1) If 2 locks ISN'T working, then try something else. Tried and true is a lie. If you can't figure out how to do a fight outside of what someone else did, you won't progress very far.
Thing is, two locks will work very well, the strategy needs tweaked, not the raid make up, and when you are first doing these fights it is highly recommended that you try tactics that are known to be effective, why would you not? To be stubborn and refuse to try what is known to work just because of some need to be original will not get you very far either. 2) Kara is not about being geared. Gear helps. The only real fight in Kara is Prince, kinda.
Gear is very improtant, just try kara in all greens, see how it goes. All of these are extremely real fights to a progression guild, just because you are no longer doing kara does not make it any less important to someone who is
4) Bosskillers.com is, right now and outdated reference guide on many of the older fights. And is very bias. It should not be used as the "end all be all tactics". How do you get that? Have the encounters changed? Bias towards what? Care to enlighten us or offer an alternative?
As for the spelling mistake, that is nearly always not a typo, I've seen that almost every day of my wow career and even seen rogues do that. But I am curious, how does ones choice of screen names affect their personal observations?
Post by
148743
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Post by
Beefin
I've been the lock on imp duty in this fight.
Things to remember when doing this fight.
All dps stops attacking the boss and kills the chains whenever they pop. You can't let a single person die by the chains. You will lose healing or dps and it heals the boss.
Have the person who is in the chains call out that they are in them. "JoeRaider is in the chains and needs healing!!"
Kill Kil'rek directly after killing the chains EVERY TIME. It gives you a dmg buff for killing the boss.
Make sure the person offtanking Kil'rek is helping dps the boss too. You need all the dps you can muster up. The offtank only needs to produce enough threat to keep Kill'rek off the warlock throwing the aoe nukes and healers
Like said above, mages can Ice block out of the chains, pallies can bubble.
The lock on imp duty is ALWAYS casting Seed of Corruption on the imps. Yes, I said ALWAYS, through the entire fight.
Tips for your warlock
Spec doesn't matter but I believe affliction with
Dark Pact
makes it the easiest. If your lock is this spec, before the fight, take your imp out of phase shift and buff his ass up then put him back in. Fully buffed that imp regenerates alot of mana pretty fast. Your warlock needs to coordinate with the healers when hes going to Life Tap. Tell your healers "JoeRaider is life tapping and needs some effing healz!". Warlocks don't run out of mana, they only run out of hp. Thats why warlocks are on imp duty for this fight. You could have a mage aoe, but that would burn the mage out of mana and leave him with no mana to dps the boss down.
As an affliction lock, I would start out the fight with an amped curse of doom on the boss and fully dot the boss right off the bat. I'd then spend the rest of the fight spamming Seed of Corruption on everything that was in sight. I'd tap my pets mana before I was out of mana so he would be regening mana the entire fight. I'd never let my pet have full mana, taking advantage of his buffed up mana regen. I'd also take pots early, so by the end of the fight the cooldown would be over and I could pop another one. In last resort cases, I coordinate with my dedicated healer when I'm life tapping. Trying to life tap when the imps were low.
After several kills I became much better at this and actually started to have enough time to throw a few dots up on the boss when the imps were low.
Good Luck!
Post by
Ethix
Tell all the dps to make a macro with the following...
/target demon
Second, everyone must have deadly boss mods/bigwigs. Then when it says so and so is being sacrificed all the dps stops, clicks the macro, and does burst dps.
It's kind of not that hard.
Post by
Persen
I believe it's possible to do it in a second way with warlock.
What you need is a healer, preferably a paladin but a shaman might cut it. Spec Intensity and Nether Protection, get concentration aura (best)/earth shield(hard to keep up) and simply stand in the middle of the imps casting hellfire. As soon as you get aggro your nether protection should prevent any damage from imps, illhoof and your hellfire.
Anyone tried it and know if it works? I'd guess SoC better and can be done with any specc, but it could be fun to try out.
Also, when I (paladin tank) have done Illhoof with my brother (warlock) we've been putting the SoCs on Illhoof himself primarily, and on the imps when he's got spare time only. Remember to have the SoCing warlock keep DoTs on Illhoof, you need the dps even if he's not affliction.
Post by
Aedalas
You can expand that macro to shave another second or so off, link your normal opener to it, not sure about any other than warrior but on the rare occasion I dps this fight I use this
/tar dem
/startattack
it's just white damage but saves me one more keystroke/button click, I can start my specials right away, just replace /startattack with /cast spell name. Also a good time to use focus, at the beginning of the fight target Illhoof and type /focus. After you take out the chains you can use a macro to retarget and attack /target focus, which can again be linked with a cast or startattack. Seems like a bit much but little things add up, like food buffs, no excuse for a 70 to not be able to afford some buff food. How many times have you seen a wipe when the boss was at 1%? Little things can help.
Post by
Celdhyrean
No, never do that. As has been said repetitively in this thread,
cast SoC on Illhoof himself
.
* if he's placed correctly (sacrifice circle), the ae will damage all imps
* the ae will go off instantly from the others dps on Illhoof, meaning you're in fact casting an AoE direct damage spell. If you cast on the imps, the only damage they'll take is the SoC dot, ie it will take 3-4s to explode. Moreover, the imp whom SoC has been cast on TAKES NO DAMAGE from the explosion.
* you don't have to switch targets or whatever
Casting SoC on Illhoof is both easier AND more efficient (and you can always add UA, SL and immolate if you feel like dpsing the boss too).
@Persen : it should work, but i don't think there's much point to it. Spell interruption, mana, more damage caused to yourself and less damage on the imps (i'm not the sure the radius is big enough either) make that a tactic i won't try to use, too much of a hassle.
Also remember that Nether Protection cancels agro on the locks, so it's not the lock who's going to be the most targetted by the imps.
As for targetting Illhoof for SoC, yes it's the best strategy. However I don't see how he can have any spare time to cast SoC on imps : as i said, SoC implodes instantly on Illhoof (and in less than the cast time from residual dots and stuff when chains are up), i've never had to switch target waiting for SoC to explose.
Post by
ewhenn
yeah mate its the imps,
our locks seem to oom pretty fast.
should i tell them to calm down on the soc ?
How the hell does a lock go oom? Did they forget about life tap?
You don't need two locks to manage the imps anyways - have one DPS illhoof/chains and help out on imps if needed then go back to illhoof.
Post by
140425
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151097
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Post by
Seregon
What my guild does is that we have a warlock on the imps - mages to help if needed. We have one tank tanking both Illhoof and Kil'Rek.
We assign dedicated healer to the imp-killers. Although healers swap to whoever is in the demon chains whenever a sacrifice is up. It is important for all the healers to be on the ball and not count on anyone else to be healing the chain target.
As for the DPS that is not taking imps we keep a priority list of sorts. People should not go to the next target on the list unless all the targets above are gone. The list looks like this:
Demon Chains (The dps handling the imps should also help with this target)
Kil'Rek
Illhoof
This way we keep the weakend debuff on Illhoof at all times and we get down the important targets fast. The macro to target the demon chains is always handy to have and spam whenever the raid leader screams "SACRIFICE!!!"
/target demon chains
Good luck with your Illhoof kill. Hope this helped.
Post by
158606
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