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But... flying mounts should fly :'(
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Post by
1107309
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Eccentrica
but WoW shouldn't have included flying mounts in the first place, because they strip them away till a specified patch every expansion and because of that, they might as well fix the zones that require you to fly to no longer require flight and remove it altogether.
Removing flight would pretty much ruin some lore
. Wildhammer Dwarves, for example. An entire clan dedicated to defending the skies in multiple zones.
Not really. Its only the players, who can't fly. Lorewise, NPCs would still do it. Just like how in draenor, the Iron Horde and Shadow Council have flying units in Draenor.
I'm not against the no-flight thingie, as long as its temporal. I sincerely hope they add it at some point in the expansion.
They already said its not gonna be on 6.1 so maybe 6.2 will be the magical number? I hope so.
To a degree, I agree with their notion that flying trivializes content, and that the world is more dangerous and less artificial if we actually have to walk everywhere. But there always comes a point in every expansion, where the sense of wonder and immersion is gone, when we've reached the point were we've seen all that the current continent has to offer, we've seen all the nook and crannies, we've seen every single hidden goodie, and platforming puzzle, we've pretty much seen the entire world upside down.
When we do reach that point, remaining grounded seems pointless and annoying, and that's when flying is a godsent blessing.
Draenor still has that sense of wonder and exploration, but its not gonna last forever, and once its gone, flying really REALLY should be added back up.
And for the Role players who play as Wildhammer clan Dwarves? Or the Gnomes who role play as evil tinkers? Flight serves several purposes. People who think, and agree that it should be removed, obviously enjoy tedium... and disrupting role playing on several realms, really need to stop encouraging Blizz to ruin 8 years worth of enjoyment.
If you play WoW you engage in tedium. It's part of the game. It's ubiquitous.
And anyone who farms ore for hours, or kills the same set of trash and raid bosses every week for months, or grinds rep, or did the Argent Tournament, or remembers walking till 40, enjoys or least accepts tedium.
There is no flying in Draenor. Period. End of Story.
All the wailing and gnashing of teeth on the part of the minority (according to the utterly unscientific poll on MMOC) will accomplish nothing.
And to address the title, Flying Mounts do fly ... where flight is enabled. Just like how in real life trains do run ... on tracks, and cars do drive ..... on roads. There are places you can do things and places you can't. Deal with it.
Post by
1107309
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Post by
Rankkor
And for the Role players who play as Wildhammer clan Dwarves?
They were able to manage during vanilla, they are able to manage now. Besides, there are 5 other continents where you ARE able to fly.
Or the Gnomes who role play as evil tinkers?
What does that has to do with flight? Mekkatorque is an evil tinker. He doesn't fly.
Flight serves several purposes.
I'm not disagreeing. Notice how I'm not advocating for its removal, and I sincerely hope they do end up adding it at some point.
People who think, and agree that it should be removed, obviously enjoy tedium...
and disrupting role playing on several realms
Dude, I have 9 toons on a roleplaying server. If you seriously think 99.99% of roleplaying is centered around flying, I think you have some serious misconceptions about what roleplaying entails.
Farming ore is only boring from the ground.
Two things:
Farming ore is just as boring from the ground as it is from the air. If you meant to say that its more convenient from the air, that's something else. But both are equally boring.
and secondly, with the garrison mines, farming ores is a non-issue. I get almost 300 ore per day when accounting for all my garrisons. The day I feel lazy enough to invest the 30 min required to harvest all 9 of my mines, I can just buy stacks on the AH by the heapload, people are selling so much of it, its almost free. A stack of 200 blackrock ore sells for as little as 30 gold on my realm. And on others its even more cheap.
So yeah, this is a non-issue.
I get a rush when racing people to nodes from the sky.
That same rush happens when racing someone on the ground. With the added bonus that if the node requires some tricky platforming, then jumping skills further add even more excitement to the race, as opposed to moving in a straight line.
Rep grinds like the Skyguard and Cloud Serpent were primarily done in the sky.
Wrong and Wrong. Each had 1 quest involving flying, the rest was killing mobs on the ground.
Cloud serpent was even worse, because their only aerial quest (The race) wasn't guaranteed to happen every day. More often than not, it would not spawn, and instead you'd get the same 5 quests against mobs on the ground every day.
Instead, in their latest effort to slow content consumption, reducing travel speed by 52% when using personal mounts buys them more time to make more content.
Maybe if their content was more interesting, challenging, and engaging, use of flying mounts wouldn't trivialize it.
You are missing the point. How would you "untrivialize" flight? by adding a bunch of mechanics that dismount you from the sky and make you plummet to your death.
Nobody likes those, so grounding it is.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
1107309
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dilbo
I don't mind the no-fly-zone in draenor, it really helps keep gankers under control since they can't do their little hit-and-run thing anymore. Since garrisons are providing you with plenty of mats for all professions daily, you can't say that a lack of flight is holding you back from crafting.
I can't really see a
need
for flying mounts in draenor and they absolutely do trivialize the game and its content. It's not just about the new feeling, it's also about making the world feel alive with players running around all over the place instead of bypassing the content and other players by flying over.
If you really want to zip around to various draenor areas quickly, build a mage tower and stables. Mage tower lets you port to various locations while stables give you a 20% speed buff when mounted.
By getting creative instead of showing their lazy side. Anyone can hit the off switch. Wanna balance flight?
It's not a balance issue. That word gets tossed around thoughtlessly.
- Lower the skybox: Put players within arms reach of casters and Death Knights to be yanked from the sky for PvP
Then you have hovering and not flying. A simpler option would be to buff mount speed...oh, wait, that's what happens if you build stables in your garrison. Next...
- Mounted combat: Just like the ground mounted combat in Draenor, add more beasts to the skies and utilize combat mechanics for the mount OR the player, just like in Occ and EoE.
Mounted combat, you say? Visit nagrand.
- Timed Flight: Your mount gets a 60 minute buff to fly. Once it expires, you have to wait 15mins on a CD before you can use that mount again, or flight in general. Flying to an instance would easily exceed the CD while in the instance (in most cases).
Brilliant idea...it sounds just like
XD-57 "Bullseye" Guided Rocket Kit
- Fuel for flight: You either feed your drake, or fuel your flying machine. You have to learn specific recipes for high level cooking and feed the mount to get the flight buff for 60 minutes.
Wow, more grinding to use a mount that we already grinded for. Aren't they lifting the ban on flying in 6.1? Could just wait.
- Slow Down: It is not always about speed. Some of us love to fly just for fun. Slow flight to 100% at lvl 60 and 150% at lvl 80. Would only be slightly faster, but if you know what you are doing, and watching where you go, you can avoid trouble.
You think that "avoiding trouble" is the goal, but trouble is the point. When you're on the ground you're a target and that's definitely better than seeing some noob fly overhead avoiding his due ganking.
So, maybe instead of being lazy, and having people defend them and apologize for them, Blizz should instead look at flight and ask "How can we balance and perfect this" instead of "Forget it, just turn it off".
There is nobody being "harmed" by the lack of flight since no players can fly. It's actually perfectly balanced in that sense, since you don't have some players that can fly and others that cannot.
But I'll repeat the first sentence - this isn't a balance issue, it's an experiment and for all your cries about blizzard being "lazy", maybe it's time you did some self reflection to acknowledge your own laziness.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
1107309
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dilbo
Maybe people should spend less time defending Blizz and more time asking why we are spending more money for less content and fewer features. Then again, most of the truly dedicated would give Blizz a monthly payment for no reason at all.
If you feel like the lack of flying in draenor is a deal-breaker then stop paying. I don't play this game constantly. I play 1-2 months at a time then take a 3-4 month break.
I do have a problem with the way they over-simplified a lot of the classes, removing what many consider "iconic" abilities in the name of "pruning". I play enhancement shaman and I consider the current version of enhancement to be notably less involving than it was in Cata or MoP. The removal of earth shock for enhancement is ridiculous, and with hunters, arcane shot becomes a BM-only ability in some weak attempt at "spec differentiation". Mages are also in a pretty bad state, at least pvp-wise. These are changes I'd be concerned with. Flying mounts were always a perk, not a requirement...and in all locations where you were able to fly before, you still can...just not possible in Draenor and that's fine by me.
Post by
Eccentrica
If you play WoW you engage in tedium. It's part of the game. It's ubiquitous.
And anyone who farms ore for hours, or kills the same set of trash and raid bosses every week for months, or grinds rep, or did the Argent Tournament, or remembers walking till 40, enjoys or least accepts tedium.
There is no flying in Draenor. Period. End of Story.
All the wailing and gnashing of teeth on the part of the minority (according to the utterly unscientific poll on MMOC) will accomplish nothing.
And to address the title, Flying Mounts do fly ... where flight is enabled. Just like how in real life trains do run ... on tracks, and cars do drive ..... on roads. There are places you can do things and places you can't. Deal with it.
Farming ore is only boring from the ground. I get a rush when racing people to nodes from the sky. Raids are a poor analogy since there has never been freeform flight in a raid. Heroic Dungeon maybe, but not a raid. Rep grinds like the Skyguard and Cloud Serpent were primarily done in the sky.
As someone who started in TBC, I remember the tedium, and was overjoyed with Cata when it was minimized. Now, it is back, and people applaud it. Given that almost everything worth doing is either a world tap (so anyone can get a hit), or phased and seen only by the player, flying would hurt no one, and affect nothing in a negative way.
Garrisons are already an over abundance of leather, herbs, and ore, so not flying would not "gimp" a gathering ratio for raiders. You don't need a flying mount for your dailies, but could enjoy using it on the non-group apex daily. There is no solid reason why flight should remain disabled in 6.1, other than Blizz saying "Reasons". People have always had the ability to walk or use ground mounts, yet need Blizz to hold their little hand to keep them from reaching for that flying mount. Maybe if more players exercised some self control, and used the mount that was most FUN for them, this non issue would REALLY be a non issue, and flight would be enabled with an epic quest in 6.1.
Instead, in their latest effort to slow content consumption, reducing travel speed by 52% when using personal mounts buys them more time to make more content. Maybe if their content was more interesting, challenging, and engaging, use of flying mounts wouldn't trivialize it.
As for the "flying mounts fly where you can already fly" argument, that is the lamest argument ever used. Thanks for stating the obvious and ignoring people's wish to fly in CURRENT content.
You seem to fall into the category of content locust, which is you may be fine with, but is no reason whatsoever for Blizzard to force everyone down that path. I too am a BC baby, and the number of shortcuts and easy-modes that have crept into the game make me weep.
This is an RPG not a twitchy-finger FPS, and in this particular little adventure, we are grounded. Deal with it or unsub. Maybe RPGs simply aren't for you. Millions are enjoying themselves. Being loud in your complaining doesn't make you the majority.
Post by
1107309
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
You are missing the point. How would you "untrivialize" flight? by adding a bunch of mechanics that dismount you from the sky and make you plummet to your death.
Nobody likes those, so grounding it is.
By getting creative instead of showing their lazy side. Anyone can hit the off switch. Wanna balance flight?
- Lower the skybox: Put players within arms reach of casters and Death Knights to be yanked from the sky for PvP
If you are flying at less than 20 yards from the ground, you are not really flying. And even then only ranged mobs would be a danger to you, melee mobs would be harmless.
- Mounted combat: Just like the ground mounted combat in Draenor, add more beasts to the skies and utilize combat mechanics for the mount OR the player, just like in Occ and EoE.
I don't think you realize just how much of a hassle it is to have Three-Dimensional combat, I'll give you a hint: they tried it in Vashj'ir and everyone hated it. They tried it in occulus and everyone hated it. They tried it in EoE and everyone hated it.
Combat has to be two-dimensional and that's just the way it is. Its why we'll never see aerial combat in this game again. They've tried several times and each was less welcomed than the last.
- Timed Flight: Your mount gets a 60 minute buff to fly. Once it expires, you have to wait 15mins on a CD before you can use that mount again, or flight in general. Flying to an instance would easily exceed the CD while in the instance (in most cases).
The only way this would work is if the limitation was more severe. 60 minutes of flight on a 15min CD may as well be unlimited flight. And even then, this would still trivialize content.
Lemme put a small example here.
I am a Death Knight, I'm pretty good at soloing stuff, so when we have the daily to assault the elite half of Shattrath City, I usually don't need a group. But only if I fight on the residential area. In there, rather than face elite demons, I face elite Shadow Council orcs and draenei. However, to get to the residential area, I must first travel through a densely populated part stacked sky high with incredibly powerful elite demons that I just can't solo.
If I can fly, I can just bypass all those pesky demons, and fly straight to the area with the easy mobs. Easy-peasy. If I have to ride, I need to carefully navigate around the elite demon patrols, and carefully move without drawing attention to where the easy mobs are. Requires time, requires skill, requires effort. Far more than simply mounting up and skipping all of it to reach to the end part.
This is the main imperative why they've disabled flight, its just one example out of many where being able to fly, essentially allows you to bypass content and make things incredibly easy. Its the same reason why every other MMO refuses to add flight. Seriously, think of every other MMO out there in the market. Even Aion, a game hyped around being able to fly only lets you fly for 60 seconds on a hefty 30 min cooldown.
- Fuel for flight: You either feed your drake, or fuel your flying machine. You have to learn specific recipes for high level cooking and feed the mount to get the flight buff for 60 minutes.
As I said above, a 60 min flight may as well be permanent, that's too generous.
- Slow Down: It is not always about speed. Some of us love to fly just for fun. Slow flight to 100% at lvl 60 and 150% at lvl 80. Would only be slightly faster, but if you know what you are doing, and watching where you go, you can avoid trouble.
Even flying at 20% speed would still allow you to bypass content.
An example of this is jumping puzzles. Not everyone likes them, but platforming has been a staple of gaming since Super Mario Bros on the Snes. And wow has incorporated several of them. Its not the first either, Guild Wars 2 has a veritable heapload of platforming puzzles. Those puzzles would become trivial if you could just jump to the end of it.
So, maybe instead of being
lazy
, and having people defend them and apologize for them, Blizz should instead look at flight and ask "How can we balance and perfect this" instead of "Forget it, just turn it off".
Its not about being lazy. Lazy is skipping the content by flying over it. The truth is: There is no way to balance flight, other than make every single mob have ranged attacks, and a 200yard range on those attacks, so they can still be a danger to you way up in the sky.
That "could" be a solution, but it would introduce several other problems. Just like the "Auto-dismount" option is equally annoying. I hated that during the Ogri'lla bombing runs in TBC.
And aerial combat with flying mobs would be too chaotic, confusing, and unfun to implement. Vashj'ir was a clear evidence of that (Yeah, it was underwater but from a mechanical point of view it was like a permanently aerial zone, and it was universally hated).
I was among the minority that loved Vashj'ir, but the overwhelming majority hated it.
Maybe people should spend less time defending Blizz and more time asking why we are spending
more money for less content
and fewer features. Then again, most of the truly dedicated would give Blizz a monthly payment for no reason at all.
Less content is what you get if you can fly over all the content. I can assure you, the 5.1 krasarang dailies would had been SO much more exciting if I was unable to basically skip all the mobs and head straight to the command center. Actually having to cut my way through the alliance army, and push onwards to the Lion's Landing barrack would had been more content than simply taking a portal to the goblin outpost, mounting on my 320% speed drake, landing on the roof of the barracks, death-gripping the mob I wanted to kill to the roof, and then fly off.
Understand my stance on this, I'm not advocating for flight removal. Flight is a fun mechanic, it was added for a reason and its here to stay. I'm just saying, adding flight to current content is not the best idea, as it makes the world completely harmless.
Currently, draenor is dangerous. If I travel through gorgorond looking for timber to harvest, I have a very real possibility of getting killed. If I pull too many mobs and get dismounted. If I sustain too many wounds and fall off a very steep ledge without enough health to survive the landing, if I get within the aggro range of a group mob that hits too hard, etc. Draenor is a world with dangers. If I can fly over all those dangers, the world is harmless. You know what a harmless world is like? boring.
Of course, draenor wont be dangerous forever. Right now its dangerous because we're all undergeared. But a few tiers from now, we're all gonna be fully decked in tier 19 or something. By that point, absolutely nothing on draenor will pose a danger to us, we'll just steamroll though the mobs.
At that specific point
, I do believe flight should be enabled. It wont trivialize content then, because by that point, content is already trivial.
Post by
1107309
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Post by
335450
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1297919
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
1107309
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
335450
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
1107309
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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335450
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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335450
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
It doesn't HAVE to be two dimensional, people want it two dimensional because it is easier to maintain. People complain about not having a challenge, and then complain that aerial combat is difficult and tedious.
Because something being challenging and something being annoying are two entirely different concepts.
You know what else is tedious? Slowing myself down by 52% and wishing I could put my tinker into Mim's head and fly away.
That's timeconsuming, but what you are describing is essentially skipping over content. Mobs exist in the world to create a sense of danger, to keep us on our edge. If we can just vault over them, they become nothing more than part of the scenery, completely passive and completely harmless.
They could introduce aerial mobs, so that flying doesn't trivializes the dangers of the world, but the thing is: they did it already, 3 different times, and it was hated by an overwhelmingly large segment of the players. So its not a solution that will ever click with the playerbase. It just wont.
I'm still not entirely sure why you are ok with making some things tedious, and not allowing tedious mechanics for other things.
Fighting is not tedious, that's what this game is made for. We don't solve conflicts through diplomacy, and charity, or saving throws. We solve issues by killing lots and lots of stuff.
Fighting itself is not a problem.
Fighting on an uncomfortable medium is uncomfortable. Not fighting at all, defeats the purpose of the game.
But, in the interests of showing that Blizz COULD have been creative. They could have made flight available for 30 mins with a 30 min CD. Again, they were just too lazy to get creative.
-.-
Dude, you do realize of course that what you described IS essentially permanent flight, right? 30 min duration, 30 min cooldown.
Phase items on jumping puzzles. Add a buff when you have been dismounted for 5/10 minutes that would allow you to see the items at the end of the puzzle. This would force you to the ground, kill some time waiting for the buff, and then be required to physically touch the first jump in order for the item to unphase, not just land and wait 10 minutes.
Again.
A simple solution
not thought up by a billion dollar corporation.
o_O
"Simple"?
lets see:
Problem: we have a jumping puzzle and we don't want players to skip it by flying to the top.
Solution A: don't allow flight.
Solution B: Code the phasing on the item. Code the 5/10 min duration of dismounting for the phasing to wear off. Code the physical touch of the first jump.
Which one of these sounds simpler to you? If you say B, then I don't think "simple" means what you think it means.
Mounted combat would not be difficult with automatic target tracking. All that needs to happen is you select your target and the AI turns you automatically to face the target. You still have to do all the flying and keep up or move out of the way. Just like killing the folks on the flying discs in Occ. Granted, they mostly just moved in a circular motion, but the principle is the same.
Its not that simple. I lack the proper eloquence to describe accurately just how plain uncomfortable it was to fight in 3 dimensions in Vashj'ir for most people. The first thing that comes to mind is the inability to use ground-targeted Area of Effect attacks.
Again, this is a failure on the part of a design team that has both vertical and horizontal planes to work with, but just can't seem to get creative and offer up options for the dragon riders like myself.
No, they tried to implement three-dimensional combat before. Once in Wrath, once in cata. Both times it was met with overwhelming negative feedback.
With flight, I get to explore every nook and cranny. With flight, I can freely seek out battle pets to add to my collection. With flight, I can easily level the most painful profession in the game, Archaeology. I get the same amount of content in the expansion whether I fly to it or walk to it.
Nope. Because of one word: mobs. Flying allows you to bypass them. Come on man, don't deny it that the world is pretty safe when we're up there in the clouds, compared to running in the ground.
People need to stop patting Blizz on the back for turning out an expansion with no new races, or classes, and the items listed above
and then defending them at every turn.
I'm not. I've had quite the list of complaints from this expansion. On the whole, looking at the whole picture, yeah, I've enjoyed the ride so far, and have had fun, but it was not without its bumps in the road that caused grievances. Even though I defend blizzard often, I just as often criticize them as well. This, however, is not one of the points I'll bash about their design philosophy.
Specially when they have said already that flight will be turned on eventually. Whether or not its gonna be 6.2, or a later patch, or a later expansion, is unknown, but flight
WILL
be enabled in draenor eventually.
People can still walk through Draenor. Nothing is stopping them.
This is a logical fallacy, on the same vein as saying "people don't HAVE to take the bus to go to work, they can still walk, nothing is stopping them".
Just as international mailing service doesn't HAVE to be done by airplane, we can use mules if we want to, nothing is stopping us. But the fact that the better option is there, automatically nullifies the lesser option. If flight is enabled, nobody is gonna walk. And that in turn will make the world less dangerous.
What they wanted to do, was create a continent that exudes an aura of danger, of primal savagery, of death lurking on every corner, of threats encroaching from every angle. Its pretty hard to do that when you can just vault over all of that and skip over it on a flying mount. And no, adding mechanics to make the aerial zones menacing is not as easy as it sounds. All the solutions you've suggested have been tried before (mobs with long range attacks, aerial mobs, mechanics that dismount you) and rather than add challenge, they added fake difficulty and tedius.
Not sure why Blizz needs to keep flight turned off just so some players can enjoy their ground mounts.
Enjoying ground mounts was never the intention, or the point for not allowing flight.
Where I can agree however, is in the points raised by PragmaticSoul and GMax1241. The terrain can get sometimes quite annoying to navigate. Its one thing to make the world more dangerous by actually making us face the mobs in them, and another to fight with a mountain that was poorly designed.
Gorgrond is probably the worst offender (And the main reason I built a Lumber Yard in there, to have access to the shredder that can fly), though I haven't had any problem navigating the other areas (Except for that mountain in the middle of Arak).
If they are going to make flight unavailable, better terrain and better laid out flight-paths are a must-have.
This is one main point where I absolutely can agree with the side against the lack of flight.
Thankfully, Avianna's Feather has pretty much made terrain hassle a non-issue for me, but its not a perfect solution.
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